Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
I started playing again yesterday and decided to try a Cashout game at FT. It´s actually a lot of fun, but there must be some kind of trick to it as to when to cash out.
$2.20 buy-in 323 runners 63 paid
Half the cash goes into a cashout pool, and chips seem to be worth more than placing well. I wanted to see how well I could place since I haven´t played seriously for a while, so I didn´t cash out at all during the game.
After 3+ hours, I ended up 15th, and made a huge total of $2.91 ! 71 cents profit.... Not bad for 3 hours of play, right?
I don´t mind because I´m happy to where I got, but...
How do you play these games? At one point I could cash out for almost $10, but I didn´t. When you get booted out, you obviously have NO chips and only get the "place" winnings, which are really low since half the buy-ins are in the chips.
Is there a theory as to when to cash out some of your chips? Some kind of "statistically correct" calculation method or something?
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
63 places pay with 323 runners....Well IMO thats just spread too wide and encoruges people to cash out eairly. I have only played 1 game and to be honest was not sure how I should have een playing mmyself. Placement is irrelevent its all about stack size and chips in play. Obviously having a big stack is +Ev for placement, but does it out way the $ factor, ie if you have $100 worth of chips and 1st pays $50 is it worth playing on? Well that would depend...quite a tricky one. For me I would get my BI back as eairly as possable then its a free ride, with hopefully a long game still to go. When the blinds are big then as im sure you know its money!!! It in a way turnes in to a cash game with a prize pool. So the conclusion is, well it depends LOL.
If your cashout value + prize money is greater than your projected cashout value(assuming you will make final table) + projected prize money x by % of chance of making final table, then you should cash out, if not play on.
SO Cv+Pm > PCv+PPm X % = Cash out, less obviously play on.
I hope you understand that, its kinda hard to explain.
I personally think the best way to play would to cash out anything above avrage, so if you have 5k chips and Av stack is 2.5k than cash out half.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
I've seen these on fulltilt and heard about them in the emails they sent when they were new but can't say they appealed to me and so I haven't played one. Seems pretty pointless to me, why not just play cash if you want a cash game and tourney if you prefer tourneys.
The way I originally understood them was that if you cashed out you had to cash out your whole stack but I see this is not the case. In which case I kind of agree with bigfoot. In standard mtts there is usually no need to be an early big stack and the amount of times I've started really well, continued playing sensible, gradually allowed people to catch up and got busted out before the bubble in one unlucky hand. Sometimes I've wished I could take some cash out of my stack.
But then if everyone is able to do this and on that advice keeps returning to their original stack, the prize pool must shrink pretty rapidly. Suddenly becoming chip leader early on becomes a necessity. If you want to make enough profit to counter variance and make it worth your while playing, it sounds like you need to be constantly above average, otherwise the value of your stack is shrinking, almost like being in a cash game in a race, where you don't have time to wait for better opportunities, you have to make a profit before the big stacks leave, taking away all the juicy fish money.
Joined: Feb '09
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 74
I've played them but I don't think I've ever cashed out. Seems to me I would have been better off if I did though. I found that most people don't cash out.
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
@Pjot: I´ve only seen them on Full Tilt.
@awood88: Like willhebe says, most people don´t seem to cash out. By the final table almost, only $80 out of the $323 cashout pool had been cashed out.
Seems to me only the actual winner gets the real cash. First place ($66) + the whole remaining cashout pool.
@B1gfoot: I understand your formula, but it just seems to me that "% of chance of making final table" (and especially placing) is almost impossible to figure out. Maybe mathematically as a ratio of chip count, but there are too many other factors IMO.
I think you figured it out though: 1. When possible, cash out your buy-in. 2. Cash out anything above average and keep going. Sounds like the way to go. Thanks.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
This thread has actually made the games seem interesting and tempts me into trying one out. I think at first I misunderstood what they are about. I didn't realize that there was a fixed pool for winners places.
Even though most of the prize value is in the chips, no one is going to cash out nearly all of their chips when there is still money to be made from placing. So logically the best way to make money is to be the person with all the chips and oddly this is really bad for the person who finishes second.
It must be hard when you get to the final table knowing that all the value in your stack is going to the winner but cashing any of that value out is just going to allow other players to dominate you.
So again I think that it is really important to earn back some money early on in the tourney. And start collecting chips when the size of your stack really does matter - some time before the bubble. I'm thinking that this kind of tourney will benefit those who are good at playing mid-stack and don't benefit particularly from a big stack.
