Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
I notice that lot of players totally misunderstanding aggressive play and what it means... People read articles on forums, magazines, blogs, watch pro players playing high stakes and all they see is aggressive, aggressive, aggressive! So they normally think that they must play totally aggressive in order to be profitable... But, they dont actually know what they doing, they start to play too aggressive, push all chips on rags, on board with no pair and no outs and they go broke very fast... They dont realize that most aggressive players know when they are beaten and then they stop betting. They dont realize that you cant play micros on way that pros play high stakes. They just cross that line between aggressive and stupid...
What you think about this? Where is that line? How to play aggressive and not trap yourself?
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
I think a lot of it is exactly what is in your thread title.
I believe the "line" is actually measured by your intelligence.. The cruel fact is - most players simply are not clever enough to be profitable - OK - if they have discipline they can probably crack the micros playing TAG - but that's it.
To be able to play winning LAG / aggressive poker - you need to be clever; very clever.
One of the best articles I read on general poker strategy outlined the importance of there being a reason for every single move that you did, whether it was a raise, call, check or fold - you had to have reason - what did you hope to achieve by doing this action ? I think a thinking player has this mindset for every action - and can play aggressively because they are also playing tactics and there's reason behind their madness. However I think for 95% of people - there's just stupidity behind their madness.
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
I love the over-aggro types, get the right hand and let them bet bet and bet into you until they are all in. However those who know how to balance aggressivity with knowing when they have the best hand are very dangerous.
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
Posted by jessthehuman: I think a lot of it is exactly what is in your thread title.
I believe the "line" is actually measured by your intelligence.. The cruel fact is - most players simply are not clever enough to be profitable - OK - if they have discipline they can probably crack the micros playing TAG - but that's it.
To be able to play winning LAG / aggressive poker - you need to be clever; very clever.
One of the best articles I read on general poker strategy outlined the importance of there being a reason for every single move that you did, whether it was a raise, call, check or fold - you had to have reason - what did you hope to achieve by doing this action ? I think a thinking player has this mindset for every action - and can play aggressively because they are also playing tactics and there's reason behind their madness. However I think for 95% of people - there's just stupidity behind their madness.
EXCELLENT post!
I´ve been watching some Cardrunners, Deuces Cracked, and stox videos in the last few weeks, and it´s even more "mind-bogling" than you describe. Really.
If you can find them, try to get a hold of some. They´re amazing.
The top Internet players can multi-table $500-$1.000+ games, and the many considerations that go through their minds in "seconds" are incredible! Relative stack sizes, assumed ranges, possition, Short table history, player knowledge, Hud stats, +EV and -EV, Fold Equity, etc. the list goes on. EVERY single hand, raise, call, fold, etc. takes into account these many elements, and they do it in a matter of seconds. Overwhelming, to say the least.
As they all describe it, the secret lies in continuous study of all these elements, daily, until it becomes ingrained knowledge, second nature, if you will. Amazing, and also very daunting.
I think most people have absolutely no idea, really. I didn´t, not even close. It made me realise that if I want to move up, I need to study. Every day. And that is FAR from an easy thing to do.
im unsure i would say agressive is raising / overbetting whereas not getting trapped is betsize to a level that can be managed and fold if u dont hit the flop
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Germany
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1379
Posted by jovicakralj: I notice that lot of players totally misunderstanding aggressive play and what it means... People read articles on forums, magazines, blogs, watch pro players playing high stakes and all they see is aggressive, aggressive, aggressive! So they normally think that they must play totally aggressive in order to be profitable... But, they dont actually know what they doing, they start to play too aggressive, push all chips on rags, on board with no pair and no outs and they go broke very fast... They dont realize that most aggressive players know when they are beaten and then they stop betting. They dont realize that you cant play micros on way that pros play high stakes. They just cross that line between aggressive and stupid...
What you think about this? Where is that line? How to play aggressive and not trap yourself?
you are aggressive when you get your opponent under pressure so he has a hard choice, but its stupid if you start beeing so aggressive no one takes your raises serious any longer
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
@IslandJack - yeah, I've seen some of those training vids. It's a whole other game at that level I agree. And - then again a different game with the live pro's - listening to the reads they get at the table etc - that blows me away too.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: Canada
Age: 63 (M)
Posts: 39
You must be aggressive in tournament poker. When - as in pre/post flop, means the most. Bingo players play any garbage all-in preflop most times. If you have AA , call, maybe. GL
Joined: Oct '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 66
I am agree with you, but those kind of very very loose/agresive players sometimes earn alot chips in early stages of the tournaments.
You have to be clever to diferentiate between freerolls and buy-in tournaments. Sometimes in freerrols of 40k players freezout is the only why to reach the bublle with guarantees to finish in prize.
If you face with this thougths a buy-in tournament you will be losing money most of the time.
Joined: May '09
Location: Croatia
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 20502
well you are not right,that if its buy-in tourney that you dont have lot of donks!in todays poker there are no more rules!beacuse if I play at poker stars tournament with 2.75 $ buy-in,I have A high,push my cards in 10 min after t. started and donk pay me with 3 6 and get on flop trips,then what is that!so donks are everywhere! and yes sometimes you have to be aggressive,but lots of people start to be aggressive,just beacuse they have chips and push on everything!its not point to be a chip leader,you must make right move to win more,not to pay on everything and lose! and stupid is when you have fish on cash table,who raise every hand and pay all in on anything,so you cant know does he have something in hand or bluff like most of times!
Joined: Oct '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 66
Even when I suffer a bad beat versus this kind of players, I love to play with them. Realize that they are calling stations, they just push and push, I you got a good hand you just have to call call all in river and u will rape the maniac ass.
However those who know how to balance aggressivity with knowing when they have the best hand are very dangerous. 
