I readily challenge any of them to take this to court. To bring a liable action would expose there bias deals and expose them to charges of fraud.
Don't kid yourself, you would be destroyed in court.
REPLY Bring it on math dont lie.
------------ Posted by onlinejoke:
publish some facts that will resolve this issue
You still just don't get it. YOU need to publish some facts, to support your allegations. I'm not the one making allegations or spreading conspiracy theories, that is you. You need to get your head around that. REPLY ecogra certification of poker time, I published data facts????????? there certifications are false do the math. The proof is clear to read.They clealy state 95% on european roulette yet as we discussed played at maximum ability this would exceed 98%How much more of a fact do you want. They also state 95% payout at poker yet take 10% at low stakes so again this certification is false.
------------ anyway, I'm off to the pub now. Have fun.
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
As expected you don’t have any evidence to backup any of your FACTS.
And as for Law of Large Numbers or Long number probability ( in your words) - basically it states that if u analyse a large number of samples you should get a result close to expected value. Theres no evidence whatsoever that this is the only true predictor of probability.
And we have been asking you to do the same thing , take a large number of hands and analyse them, and as many people have done that in past so in a way poker sites have been tested for your " Long number probability"
I'm qualified to make more conclusions based on your behavior but im not gonna comment on that as I don’t wanna get banned from here.
Im not gonna say to close this thread or ban you as its upto admin to decide what he wants, anyway im gonna ignore you and all your rigged poker threads till you can post any substantial links to backup any of your claims.
As expected you don’t have any evidence to backup any of your FACTS.
And as for Law of Large Numbers or Long number probability ( in your words) - basically it states that if u analyse a large number of samples you should get a result close to expected value. Theres no evidence whatsoever that this is the only true predictor of probability.
And we have been asking you to do the same thing , take a large number of hands and analyse them, and as many people have done that in past so in a way poker sites have been tested for your " Long number probability"
I'm qualified to make more conclusions based on your behavior but im not gonna comment on that as I don’t wanna get banned from here.
Im not gonna say to close this thread or ban you as its upto admin to decide what he wants, anyway im gonna ignore you and all your rigged poker threads till you can post any substantial links to backup any of your claims.
Read my opening thread?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/ facts were laid down.
Further facts were laid down about ecogra who certificate a number of sites including poker time. Check there certification as stated in earlier post there claims are false beyound any doubt.
Another fact from my poker tracker pocket kings have won more time than pocket aces but who cares. Over 30,000 hands
What I care about is the amount of times a guy wins when fav>>>>>>>> EG aa verses 37 flop 347. now 37 is fav how many times does he stay in front???? and so on. DO the true odds stand up.
So supernoob tell me how we extract such data. Also tell me why every SINGLE online poker site avoids all tests that might prove there deals have no bias.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Denmark
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 481
You keep asking for proves here and there. Let me ask you one thing,(retorical question)I know youre not claiming this but could you prove to that the russian mob are doing illegal things even tho we all know it? If i said to you, they are gangsters and you ask me to prove it, how could i EVER prove that in my position and why are they not in jail if they are doing stuff like that and everyone knows? Because they cannot prove it... Not being able to prove something doesent mean its not like that.. Chances onlinejoke is right is there and since you have no information yourself wether they are really fixed or not you shouldnt act like YOU know all the facts, because you dont really have any guilty facts than lots of math which can all be manipulated. Your facts isnt worth more than onlinejoke's. And just because thats what you and many other believe doesent make it right, im not saying im right myself. You can call me whatever you like, but it doesent change the fact that you JESS act like your answers are real facts when they really aint.
This been going on for some time now and i think we can conclude that not everyone has the same oppinion regarding online poker so no reason to wind up people anymore. Wheter its fixed or not online poker is here and we can chose to play it or not. I myself love poker but am abit sceptical with it online, like i expressed before. You dont have to follow my oppinion to be my friend, arguing on a friendly level is allright. But when the trashtalk takes over... Says more about you
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 3207
Posted by dozn01: wow you want one of these
dozn01...i just took the last half hour to read threw this whole thread...i could really use one of those but think one of these would do the job better... preferably the second one
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
I cant be botherd reading all this, its obvious that there are diffrences in opnion, so why cant it be left there? Or at least start a new argument as this one is quite old....heres how it goes.... Stage 1...onlinejoke "Prove what I cant prove" Or "long number probability"(somehow put in to a sentance. Stage 2.... lots of reasonable explinations and links etc...then we go back to stage 1. Why we need 4-5 or 6 thread on the same matter is beyond me, nothing good can come from these threads and so I belive rather than banging heads on walls we should simply lock these sort of threads, If this or simular thread was made on a well known forum it would end in OP banned. Im not suggesting that, Im just suggesting these "does God exsist" threads should be locked.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 2025
why lock the thread, i find such rigged theads amusing
i personaly find to say "its 100%" clean is as stupid as to say its rigged, least its naiv...all we can do is to discuss about it, but none could bring a real proove. the arguments, like in another thread "why would risk someone such a profitable business for 50cent more rake?" is also more or less a joke to me. i also could ask, why would a stock broker risk his 10.000.000 income by speculatings with inside jobs. or why would a billionaire false his tax voucher? i mean cmon, he has like 300.000.000 yet he has to betray and risk to be punished....guess in this case jail is out of question because he will buy a free card. the menkind is greedy.. the "losing player comments" are just poor....i mean who says you have to be a losing player to think its rigged, you can also be a winning player but have your doubts. lets say you have won $200 but you generated $1000 rake in that time lol. also always the common AA thing...there is so many variations, doesnt have to be AA which you lost with, why not a setup deck with you on BB holding 23o, SB has 56 and just calls. now there wouldnt be much rake generated if both just check down to the river, but if the flop shows 456 well then there´s action lol, and the 50c probably turn into $5 rake. now if you multiplicate that per hands, hours...at end of the years you would realize its worth trying to generate more rake. everyone thinks if something is rigged it has to be in a players favour, why that? all it has to be is actionfilled like a nice flop for both or with many outs, who wins at end doesnt really matter. the variance can be huge as we all know, so its kinda hard to proove and it doesnt have to be every single hand that way either.. im not saying its rigged nor do i say its clean, i have no clue and i actually dont care because i never deposit my own money except ones to cashout...but i would feel much safer if there was someting like a monthly unanounced independent inspection who checks out their doing - and waht really makes it suspicous is that they avoid to do things like that. the only thing that would bother me if it was rigged is the "time" i spend in playing bingo instead of real poker, and maybe that i could have won $500 and not only $150, but mainly the time..
all in all your right, it is a "does god exist" thread since no one could really proove it, just theorys.. still funny to read it
You keep asking for proves here and there. Let me ask you one thing,(retorical question)I know youre not claiming this but could you prove to that the russian mob are doing illegal things even tho we all know it? If i said to you, they are gangsters and you ask me to prove it, how could i EVER prove that in my position and why are they not in jail if they are doing stuff like that and everyone knows? Because they cannot prove it... Not being able to prove something doesent mean its not like that.. Chances onlinejoke is right is there and since you have no information yourself wether they are really fixed or not you shouldnt act like YOU know all the facts, because you dont really have any guilty facts than lots of math which can all be manipulated. Your facts isnt worth more than onlinejoke's. And just because thats what you and many other believe doesent make it right, im not saying im right myself. You can call me whatever you like, but it doesent change the fact that you JESS act like your answers are real facts when they really aint.
REPLY
I take your points and very well put. and totally agree. Again I will state a fact or two , gaming regulations do allow deal manipulation that is a solid fact and testing houses who test the software do no tests to show reflection of an unbias deal , This is also a solid fact(I asked them directly). But as etna2007 said i cant prove manipulation to a high degree I can only give a few samples 9 like 1 in 3 hand HH should be won by high card after river.
Let me say again why would an entire industry not do one single test to prove its dea is honest why , it just doesnt make sence.All large companies take advantage where they can why would online poker not do the same to double there rake and egg on the gambler with lucky escapes.l
------------ speaking of amusing..what ever happend to d44ve? used to be on all the time know hes gone? maybe he feel victim to " Long number probability"
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
this is my last post in this thread, IMO etna, joke, teddy - you're all completely missing the point. Whether or not poker sites are rigged, whether the russian mob are conducting illegal activities, whether god exists, etc. All these things aren't the issue.
It's about taking a scientific approach and providing empirical data to back up your hypothesis. This is why countries have systems of law etc, because if some clown like Teddy was in charge, people would be getting locked up on the basis that "they're a gangster and committing crimes" rather than actual evidence. It's a dangerous road to go down.
Anyway, there is no point for me to continue here, none of you get it and you doubtfully ever will.
Joined: May '08
Location: Sweden
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 1362
Posted by T3ddyKGB:
...and maybe that i could have won $500 and not only $150, but mainly the time..
Supposing it was rigged (I know you are not claiming it is), why do you expect to have lost on the deal then? It has got to be rigged in favour of someone, and why not you?
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 2025
Posted by Pjot:
Posted by T3ddyKGB:
...and maybe that i could have won $500 and not only $150, but mainly the time..
Supposing it was rigged (I know you are not claiming it is), why do you expect to have lost on the deal then? It has got to be rigged in favour of someone, and why not you?
im meant.... if it wasnt rigged in someone´s favour then i probably would have won more money, and that would piss me off but not as much as to know that i wasted my time in something that is set up. anyways, rigged in someone´s favour? even to me it sounds a bit quite a stretch. i was rather reffering to be rigged as in "actionfilled" but even if its just actionfilled....to know that, it kind of reduces your skills, because the villian gets more often the chance to stay in the hand as it usualy would happen. like having a nice flop or a good card at turn that keeps him playing the hand. so instead to win a few BB´s you probably lost your entire stack on the river due to a lucky card - like i said, the outcome is irrelevant.
------------ @jesstheinhuman you call me clown i call you back idiot now what´? mom and dad never gave you right and now your such a dickhead and thats why you discuss with people in that way who havent the same opinion as you? i have no idea what you talkin about gangsters and lock em up...you wanna talk about law with me or what? there is only one law, money and power. one day if you get in a situation when your against the goverment or any other similar scenario then lets talk again about law ? oh please and dont come up with 3 published scenarios which have been filmed in a "hollyood movie" when some farmer won after 20years fight at court while hundred thousands other lost their case. ok im off subject and thats not what we wanna talk about right, but it was you who was trying to be funny - so much to system of laws. the problem in the scientific and your empirical data is that there is tons of anomalys, thousands of other possibilites and the scientific has its problem in mathematical repeating if there is luck involved. if you come up with AA and its statistic how often its has to win, well then "clap in the hands" your right, the empirical data intervened and its simple to proove. unfortunatly my engl is not that well to explain, but i thought if someone use his brain he might realize that there is so many possibilitys that its nearly impossible to proove anything if your not at the source. im out of this thread aswell, because im not saying its rigged and i dont have the ambition to proove something where i my self dont believe in, just sayin the possibility is there, i just cant believe how someone can be that naiv to say "its impossible". end of story.
Joined: May '08
Location: Sweden
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 1362
Posted by T3ddyKGB:
Posted by Pjot:
Posted by T3ddyKGB:
...and maybe that i could have won $500 and not only $150, but mainly the time..
Supposing it was rigged (I know you are not claiming it is), why do you expect to have lost on the deal then? It has got to be rigged in favour of someone, and why not you?
anyways, rigged in someone's favour? even to me it sounds a bit quite a stretch. i was rather reffering to be rigged as in "actionfilled" but even if its just actionfilled....to know that, it kind of reduces your skills, because the villian gets more often the chance to stay in the hand as it usualy would happen. like having a nice flop or a good card at turn that keeps him playing the hand. so instead to win a few BB's you probably lost your entire stack on the river due to a lucky card - like i said, the outcome is irrelevant.
Yeah, I understood that was what you meant after I had posted the question. Sorry, kind of stupid of me.Don't know what I was thinking...
hmmmmm alot more mobsters are getting there point of view in this topic, i like it spices up the forum but as long as it doesnt get out of hand and no one get banned its ok all i can say is the more active you are in a forum the more chance you are to disagree with someone and we all have different opinions and chances are you might fall out, trust me i know this from experiences here
Joined: Oct '08 Location: Germany Age: 36 (M) Posts: 1380
Read more: http://www.bankrollmob.com/forum.asp?mode=thread&id... i personaly find to say "its 100%" clean is as stupid as to say its rigged, least its naiv...all we can do is to discuss about it, but none could bring a real proove. the arguments, like in another thread "why would risk someone such a profitable business for 50cent more rake?" is also more or less a joke to me. i also could ask, why would a stock broker risk his 10.000.000 income by speculatings with inside jobs. or why would a billionaire false his tax voucher? i mean cmon, he has like 300.000.000 yet he has to betray and risk to be punished....guess in this case jail is out of question because he will buy a free card. the menkind is greedy.. the "losing player comments" are just poor....i mean who says you have to be a losing player to think its rigged, you can also be a winning player but have your doubts. lets say you have won $200 but you generated $1000 rake in that time lol. also always the common AA thing...there is so many variations, doesnt have to be AA which you lost with, why not a setup deck with you on BB holding 23o, SB has 56 and just calls. now there wouldnt be much rake generated if both just check down to the river, but if the flop shows 456 well then there´s action lol, and the 50c probably turn into $5 rake. now if you multiplicate that per hands, hours...at end of the years you would realize its worth trying to generate more rake. everyone thinks if something is rigged it has to be in a players favour, why that? all it has to be is actionfilled like a nice flop for both or with many outs, who wins at end doesnt really matter. the variance can be huge as we all know, so its kinda hard to proove and it doesnt have to be every single hand that way either.. im not saying its rigged nor do i say its clean, i have no clue and i actually dont care because i never deposit my own money except ones to cashout...but i would feel much safer if there was someting like a monthly unanounced independent inspection who checks out their doing - and waht really makes it suspicous is that they avoid to do things like that. the only thing that would bother me if it was rigged is the "time" i spend in playing bingo instead of real poker, and maybe that i could have won $500 and not only $150, but mainly the time..
all in all your right, it is a "does god exist" thread since no one could really proove it, just theorys.. still funny to read it
Very well put couldnt agree more and remember several sites have been closed down by the FBI for breaking the law . Also not one site has audit to show reflection of a live deal.
------------
Posted by jessthehuman: this is my last post in this thread, IMO etna, joke, teddy - you're all completely missing the point. Whether or not poker sites are rigged, whether the russian mob are conducting illegal activities, whether god exists, etc. All these things aren't the issue.
It's about taking a scientific approach and providing empirical data to back up your hypothesis. This is why countries have systems of law etc, because if some clown like Teddy was in charge, people would be getting locked up on the basis that "they're a gangster and committing crimes" rather than actual evidence. It's a dangerous road to go down.
Anyway, there is no point for me to continue here, none of you get it and you doubtfully ever will.
You have posted no proof jess and sites refuse to do tests that would prove deals were honest or not, Again why does every site refuse to carry out any proper testing???? unless its rigged it dont make sence
------------
Posted by T3ddyKGB: why lock the thread, i find such rigged theads amusing
i personaly find to say "its 100%" clean is as stupid as to say its rigged, least its naiv...all we can do is to discuss about it, but none could bring a real proove. the arguments, like in another thread "why would risk someone such a profitable business for 50cent more rake?" is also more or less a joke to me. i also could ask, why would a stock broker risk his 10.000.000 income by speculatings with inside jobs. or why would a billionaire false his tax voucher? i mean cmon, he has like 300.000.000 yet he has to betray and risk to be punished....guess in this case jail is out of question because he will buy a free card. the menkind is greedy.. the "losing player comments" are just poor....i mean who says you have to be a losing player to think its rigged, you can also be a winning player but have your doubts. lets say you have won $200 but you generated $1000 rake in that time lol. also always the common AA thing...there is so many variations, doesnt have to be AA which you lost with, why not a setup deck with you on BB holding 23o, SB has 56 and just calls. now there wouldnt be much rake generated if both just check down to the river, but if the flop shows 456 well then there's action lol, and the 50c probably turn into $5 rake. now if you multiplicate that per hands, hours...at end of the years you would realize its worth trying to generate more rake. everyone thinks if something is rigged it has to be in a players favour, why that? all it has to be is actionfilled like a nice flop for both or with many outs, who wins at end doesnt really matter. the variance can be huge as we all know, so its kinda hard to proove and it doesnt have to be every single hand that way either.. im not saying its rigged nor do i say its clean, i have no clue and i actually dont care because i never deposit my own money except ones to cashout...but i would feel much safer if there was someting like a monthly unanounced independent inspection who checks out their doing - and waht really makes it suspicous is that they avoid to do things like that. the only thing that would bother me if it was rigged is the "time" i spend in playing bingo instead of real poker, and maybe that i could have won $500 and not only $150, but mainly the time..
all in all your right, it is a "does god exist" thread since no one could really proove it, just theorys.. still funny to read it
Very well put couldnt agree more and remember several sites have been closed down by the FBI for breaking the law . Also not one site has audit to show reflection of a live deal.
Most who get their aces cracked, tend to slow play pre flop, then decide to shove on a suited or connected flop. Then cry how sick it was someone hit a flush or straight. While I am unsure which of you whining is the rigtard. The solution is quite simple. Stop playing.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
but what aces winning 86%? Calm down, theres got to be rules. All-in pre-flop AA is not the same thing as 2nd talking calling station AA... Explain things as clear as possible. I like to read your forums, but i only enjoy doing it when it is well done.
Posted by roark: Most who get their aces cracked, tend to slow play pre flop, then decide to shove on a suited or connected flop. Then cry how sick it was someone hit a flush or straight. While I am unsure which of you whining is the rigtard. The solution is quite simple. Stop playing.
If you slow play aces heads up they should win 86% of the time, If you raise hard that figure goes over 90% as there are folded hands that might get lucky.Online these odds don't work out check it out
