Joined: Jun '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 14
Title says it all, how do you play against them, i HATE em, its either all in pre flop, or on the flop, whit no playing at all to have a chance to outplay them... Right now i am starting to completely avoid em as much as possible.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
I'm more than wiling to help you out, but will need more info, such as what games you play, FR or SH, also stakes do make a diffrence and if you are playing NL or PL also if it is cash games or in tournaments (include type, DoN SnG MTT with field) you want help with, and the type of player tag lag etc. Short fire answers, if in position just raise them pre and on flop, most are looking for that easy double up and will fold when not strong, this does depend on the type of play too, such as a aggro players will fire back(as he knows just what you are doing, lots od SS grinders out there), if you can put them on a range then know your odds, very important, and when you feel your good to go put him AI, (say you think they hit a A for 1 pair and you are sat with 2 pair or better etc) Chances are normally if they are calling your bets they are willing to go all the way, so you can either let them hang themselves or get out, that depends. But more info would be needed for the sort of spots you are havin problems with.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by Pile: Title says it all, how do you play against them, i HATE em, its either all in pre flop, or on the flop, whit no playing at all to have a chance to outplay them... Right now i am starting to completely avoid em as much as possible.
If this is full ring cash game then:
It's relatively easy really. Short stackers that play just shove-fold are playing a very specific hand range.
Likely 88+ and A10+. To profitably call, i'd say call only with JJ+ and AJ+. I realise this range is prollly on the nitty side, but if you stick to calling them with that range, you should be fine.
If this is a SNG:
Early stage avoid short stacks with anything less than a premium hand.
Mid stage - Same as early stage really. If they are 5bb or shorter and you have a big stack, it may be +ev to call them a little lighter, especially if you are close to/on the buble. Likely though mid stage you won't be on the bubble.
Late stage - Basically everyone but the chip lead will be short stacked at this point. When you're 10bb deep or less, every hand will be shove/fold as it's poor play to raise-fold at this stage.
At this stage, as long as you are in good shape, I'd suggest calling them a lot lighter, again especially if you are on/close to the bubble. Take this scenario for example:
Donk 1 In SB - 1100 chips Your in BB - 7000 chips Donk 2 UTG - 3000 chips Donk 3 CO 4000 chips
Blinds are 300/600 Payout is 50/30/20 for 1st, 2nd and 3rd respectively.
UTG and CO folds and SB shoves.
What would you do here? The answer may suprise you.
You're literally calling with ANY 2 cards. Litterally.
You're only risking another another 1100 chips to potentially win a 3000 chip pot so you're 3 to 1 already to call. PLUS the chance of knocking the short stack out is worth risking your chips as if he's knocked out, all 3 remaining players will cash. I won't go into log winded details about ICM but basically these are situations where you need to be pouncing on to maximize profit.
It's not so hard as you think. You said yourself, they go all in pre flop and on the flop. So you have 2 chioces left, you cant raise them anymore. Fold if you think your behind and otherwise call. Try to imagine what you should do when you are a shortstack. And watch them closely, some shortstacks have a wider range of hands they play and some are really thight and only play the premium hands.
Joined: Jun '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 14
I am playing 10NL FR cash, usually i keep the short stacks on my left side, since i always buy in full stack and i want to catch thos big stacks on my right to pay me out since i have position on them most of the time. And i guess that is my problem with shortstacks, they always have position on me, and with them its all in or nothing, if i dont have a really good hand (AQ+. or JJ+) i just fold their all in or re-raise. The last 3 hands i lost with really good hands, AQ against Q2o, he shoved on flop Q 4 8, caught the 2 on the river... AA against J9o I know it was a good call but it still gets me sometimes... And by the way i got to work on my MTT skills, since i play only cash it has really destroyed my MTT play, ppl run me over like i am not even playing..
the way you can avoid the shortstacks is to play on deepstack cash table, there plenty of them tables on most poker sites,
but if deep stack is really too much just try to join a table with no more than 2 shortstacks players, you still can play your game without worry about them, i wish you good luck
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 979
i simply play my game and i dont change it because i have short stacks there but if i get in pots with them, i take advantage, mostly because i play omaha so they either play the nuts or nuffin, so ill donkbet c-bet on wet flops, sometimes on dry ones, if they call ill just check it down sometimes ill fire again if a draw makes it and normally short/deep stacks all fold... and i do this to everyone with at least 20 hands in my PT3
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 6669
Since i'm a big stack strategy fan and player my personal advice would be that in time to best way to deal with shortstackers is to avoid them. Period.
I admit that there is a short stack strategy but they should play with other shortstackers on shallow tables and not involve with bss players.
Still, if you meet them you must play good hands extremly aggressive, often put them all in preflop, the biggest mistake bigstackers do is to get a defensive attitude, you always need to remember that you have the bigger stack so you can put all the pressure Plus you need to remember you are a reg at a certain limit, he just does shots at those limits
