Joined: Jun '13
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I really dont know why all these peoples saying that online poker is rigged and they continue to play there regularly. If somethink is rigged and you enter in it then there is something wrong in choice in life. If its rigged and you play it just shut up. Because you gone look like an idiot.
Joined: Oct '14
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Posted by Skpmorita: oh man same topic over and over again no it is not rigged but there are luck involved if the 95 % hand should always win , then we should call it the 100 % hand xD you just happened to be one of the unlucky guys , and your opponent hit his 5 % hand
If 95% hand dont win in 10 times in row, is that statistycly correct??? bcs that happend a lot in pokerstars...
Joined: Feb '13
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Posted by pinotte: I really dont know why all these peoples saying that online poker is rigged and they continue to play there regularly. If somethink is rigged and you enter in it then there is something wrong in choice in life. If its rigged and you play it just shut up. Because you gone look like an idiot.
Joined: Feb '11
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Posted by StheP:
If 95% hand dont win in 10 times in row, is that statistycly correct??? bcs that happend a lot in pokerstars...
Of course it is possible. However I really cannot recall to this having happened to me ever in over 40K SNGs/MTTs. I Mean 10 times in a row? Either you miscalculate your odds or you are overreacting.
Joined: Oct '14
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well it did to me... and I think that pokerstars is rigged, but not for sure... Job of RNG is to give few players strong hands so they would put more money in pot... more money in pot, more rake, more rake more money for pokerstars. I am not saying that its rigged to favorite some players, it is rigged to make bigger pots, thats all... But maybe I'm wrong maybe it isnt rigged....
Joined: Feb '11
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Posted by StheP: well it did to me... and I think that pokerstars is rigged, but not for sure... Job of RNG is to give few players strong hands so they would put more money in pot... more money in pot, more rake, more rake more money for pokerstars. I am not saying that its rigged to favorite some players, it is rigged to make bigger pots, thats all... But maybe I'm wrong maybe it isnt rigged....
No, the reason for all this talk people do is simple. It's called selective memory. Frustration for most people is stronger than excitement. For that reason, our memory selects the situations we get sucked out on and remembers these more likely than hands we suck out on. People who complain "*cry* I always get so unlucky, always sucked out by donks *cry*" are in reality more likely not good players themself, because they haven't understood one of the important and simple concepts of the game. These people also like to complain about each time they get sucked out on, but never talk or simply take it for granted when they suck out. No one gets unluckier than others, if one does over the longterm then the reason is within his play itself.
So about the action creating: Lets assume we are at a 10 max table (using 10 because it's easier to calculate). The odds of getting a hand of the range QQ+ and AK is 2.56%. If you calculate it for 10 players, the odds of someone having a hand of this range is 25.6% of the time. That's once every roughly 4 hands. Now if you want someone else to have a hand like this as well, devide it by 4 again. That means roughly 1 in 16 hands you will have a so called "set up" (normally I'd have to discount life cards and all that stuff but I can't be bothered now, it's just so that you get the idea).
Once every 16 hands you will see a preflop all in where you'd call stars action creating. No, I honestly don't believe it's action creating, why would they do that? They earn far more than the few cents rake they would additionally get. Even if it was action creating, why bother about it? No player has an advantage from it. Really if someone is a losing player there is one simple way to change that: work on your game! The time people waste about complaining about the pokersites is valuable time that could largely improve their skill.
I mean I wouldn't consider myself a good poker player either, I have LOADS of leaks, but I beat the game at a (for me) decent winrate. It really is a very simple game, and if you are any good you WILL make money over the long run. If I can make it, everyone can make it. But if people waste their time crying then that's nothing someone can help.
My pokertracker has logged over 1 million of hands played by me, and there is also an option of hand distribution. This is a decent sample. It also shows % of how often I received a specific hand, and every single hand combination is very close to the 0.59% that it should be at.
Edited by BeMyATMplz (02 November 2014 @ 21:50 GMT)
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
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Posted by yout85: A question for the rigged theorists:
The odds of a coin flip being heads 10 times in a row is 2048 to 1
If you have attempted it 2047 times, without success, how many more blocks of 10 flips should you EXPECT to have to do?
It can still take another 2047 times to hit that's where people get frustrated on, if they run "under EV" (and I don't exclude myself by that either, at least if it happens over large samplesize). Variance, no matter in what aspect, it might be in life in general, in poker, whatever you do, variance is with you. You can either run way above it or way below it. Seeing a girl randomly and having it become the love of your life is running largely over EV as well. It's like when people say about life in general "sometime everyone will get their justice", and yes, in general no one will be luckier than someone else. We might just not live as long to have a proper "samplesize" on that
The actual answer to my question is that you would expect to attempt it ANOTHER 2048 times before success.... Probability has no memory. Previous results do not affect future probability.
So with the 10 times 95% statement... (although basically a lie I would presume) it's not 0.05 to the power of 10 (so 0.000000000005% think that's the right number of zeros) it's just a series of 5% chances. Each as likely as the one before.
every poker player that understands the game knows FACT is that AVERAGE even below the averge player can have decent ROI at live cash game playn tight abc poker . yes i do understand live cash game players that consider them self GOOD when they say PS is rigged. best thing to do is to ignore posts like this one .
Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
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I don't believe for ONE minute that any of the software used by the BIG poker sites such as PokerStars,...Full Tilt,...or Party Poker,...has been created or manipulated for the purpose of bilking the masses for their hard earned money...!
You would think SOMEbody would have found some hard evidence instead of speculation by now after ALL these years of reading this stuff...!
Joined: Apr '09
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Posted by PokerKing76: Have you ever play a real life tournament??? It takes ages to finish a 100 players tournament. With 10K players you'll have to play all week long to be at the final table.
You fail to understand extremely basic maths (a finite amount of chips with ever increasing blinds). The games finish time (even for 10K players) can just about be calculated (to within a margin of course).
Given the understanding of mathematics required to determine whether or not online poker is rigged, somehow I doubt your opinion (that of a moron) is worth anything.
You know, if you took all the chips in a 10K player MTT that went for 12hours and divided them between two people and reset the blinds back to level 1, those two people could easily play HU for 12hours.. Particularly if the prizepool was big enough to stop people getting bored and shoving all-in for 200,000BB
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Posted by Phisix:
Even I used to say things like that until I used my brain. Now it's either because of bad play or bad luck or both.
I may still be a condescending cunt, but I am glad to hear that you've come around from the dark side.
Edited by jessthehuman (03 November 2014 @ 07:28 GMT)
Joined: May '08
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I guess it is not that easy. Some online casino software was found out not to produce fair results. So it is not out of the world, that there is some shady online poker software, too. Generally both types of software are produced by the same companies.
Joined: Mar '14
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seems more or less same kind of "random" everywhere, i just call it poker, bad beats or not, without luck there is no final table.
------------ Sometimes u go bluff 3,2 and fck a guy with AA, and another time you will be the one fucked simple as that, those that never donk, will never get lucky, you will minimise the failure but wont rly achieve much unless lucky a bit.
------------ Either with good draws or lucky to hit lower kicker
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
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Posted by jsikonja: without luck there is no final table.
yes indeed.
One of the things I think that a LOT of people don't realise, is that you have to actually be lucky to not only occasionally win when you get your chips in bad / flips - but also just for winning enough times when you get it in good..
For example - if you're playing an MTT and along the way you risk your entire stack 4 times and each time you push all in (on the flop say) - you're a 70% favourite - statistically speaking, you should actually lose the game.. So say you shove 4 times as a 70% favourite and on the fourth time you lose and you scream "BAD BEAT" "RIGGED" "B******T:" - when the fact is, not only does probability say that you're going to lose that hand 30% of the time, probability actually says if you shove all-in as a 70% favourite four times during the course of the game, despite being a heavy favourite each time, you're actually more likely to lose the game (bust out) than you are to survive.
The point being; it takes an incredible amount of luck to get a high score in an MTT.
But the problem is, people look at all these hands in a vacuum, which is such a terrible way of looking at poker.
So you're playing an MTT and you never make a bad move, keep getting your cards in good, you're doing fucking great, you're 10th in chips, there's 50 players left, you're nearly ITM and you're looking forward to a big score.. you get KK or some such hand, get your stack in as a 90% favourite on the flop and get outdrawn by some b******t 2-outter or something.. You scream bloody murder - you just sat through 6 hours of poker, only to bust out 5 before the money, despite getting your chips in as a 90% favourite - you should now be the chip leader! But instead you're staring at the screen in disbelief - fucking online poker ! Every fucking time. Right!?
..right?
Well... no.. not every time, what about all those other hands during that 6 horus.. the fact you won 2 flips and you got your hand in twice as a 60% fav and won both times.. You once got your stack in as a 35% dog and you scored a flush and doubled up..
You got your hand in another time, as a 70% favourite and lost, but fortunately you had the villain covered, leaving you with 10bb and you managed to double up a survive a few hands later..
The thing is.. when you look at all these hands combined.. you were statistically DUE to lose that hand where you were the 90% favourite..
Fact is - in any individual MTT it takes a fucking HUUUGE amnount of luck to hit the final table / top 3/ bink..
Sure.. to be a long-term, winning tournament player, it takes skill.. But to take down a single tournament? You can be complete s**t-head donkey and bink it or you can be the best of the best, best there ever was and lose in the first 15minutes..
If you honestly believe you're a winning player (or more to the point, if you honestly ARE playing winning poker) - then you WILL win.. but you have to play lots of games.. Or not.. if you're lucky.. But to realise you're actual value - your ROI - you need to play enough games, that the overall pattern of your results is an actual reflection of your skill level..
My advice is to play 5-20 MTTs in EVERY session, play 6+ tables at a time, register for a whole tonne.. Generally if I play an MTT session, I'll expect to cash in 2-5 tourneys and that doesn't even necessarily put me in front for the session..
The point is, if you want to realise your potential in poker, then it's all about the volume.
And if you DO put in the volume and you're STILL not winning. Then I'm afraid you're just NOT THAT GOOD.
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Posted by shokaku: Generally both types of software are produced by the same companies.
That is a very broad and vague statement.
Do you know of any specific examples of companies releasing gambling software known to be fixed and reputable poker software?
Edited by jessthehuman (03 November 2014 @ 13:09 GMT)
Joined: May '12
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Pretty much spot on (as usual) Jess.... Other than one point I'd like to make....
Posted by jessthehuman: If you honestly believe you're a winning player (or more to the point, if you honestly ARE playing winning poker) - then you WILL win..
Not necessarily... By the laws of probability, you COULD play winning poker EVERY TIME you enter a tourney... NEVER getting your money in as an underdog and lose EVERY TIME (in the same way a coin flip COULD come out heads a billion times in a row). Even over a billion hands, this COULD happen - sure the odds would be monumental, but that only makes it statistically improbable - not statistically impossible.
But obviously, I get your point - play winning poker and you should win... play losing poker and you should lose (over a big enough sample).
