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  6-Dec-15, 16:17   #21
  0 
arrow-knee- 

Joined: Jul '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 560
Posted by IceQueenAce:
Posted by Skpmorita:
------------
Posted by IceQueenAce:



this is so wrong in many levels
1*calling any raise even if it is min from early position with 6 4 off is bad bad play , unless from late position / or defending your blinds
2*betting pot shows weakness ? in some cases but with their stacks .. it is obv top pair with good kicker .. there is nothing wrong to bet pot with top pair top kicker .. make the draws pay you off
3*he was ahead all the time , you read the hand wrong

i don't understand why people defending these ***** guys
he had bottom pair no kicker no draw and he called all-in bet against top pair top kicker
IT IS BAD PLAY .. there is no need to find explanations for these idiots




1) doesn't matter a jot whether the villain played it wrong or right. Hero opened utg with a poor hand and this is a losing play over the long term.

2) I don't know what stakes you play, I know my stakes and I know the guys I play against. I should remind you, the OP stated the villain had been VERY tight. How could he even think he was ahead.

3) I didn't read the hand wrong, I discussed every street. The river doesn't matter a single jot. What matters is how the hand plays on each hand.

I am not defending villain, I am saying the Hero played badly. All you did was rant really, which wont help OP get better at all or understand his mistakes.

Just because he was ahead, does NOT mean the hero played it correctly. By even posting the results, he has skewered (sp?) your thinking. What he should have done is not posted villians hand.

If you didn't know what the villians hand was, and you saw someone bet into a VERY tight villain, I am fairly sure you would be agreeing with me.

Being results orientated is a terrible way to learn poker Tongue

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Posted by Skpmorita:
Posted by Serpang:
So sometimes in your lucky day you have to play crazy to win first place.


this is what is wrong with online poker player .
this statement literally gave me cancer

no offence to anyone , also i am not good poker player or not even decent
but poker does depend on luck but it doesn't mean you play 'crazy' because we are not Psychics and don't know what is gonna happen .
so all you can do is play your best and you should depend more on mathematics .

what i mean is you should always call when you have 50+% to win .. i hate when people say i have big pair but i "feel" an ace is gonna come so i am gonna fold .. you can fold sometimes depending if you wanna survive a bubble or something but not just because you know you gonna lose ..
depending on some situations you can call with 40% or even less .. it is reasonable , depending the stack sizes plus the tournament format ..
but to call when you were 2% to win and you risk a lot of your stack , just because you were ' feeling lucky' that's just retarded

So much wrong with this post, maybe I will get round to replying properly later.

But, it literally gave you cancer? Really? When does your chemotherapy start?



------------
Posted by arrow-knee-:
Posted by Tony_MON7ANA:
Did you really have to bloat the pot with one pair type hand post-flop out of position on a relatively scary board texture?
You could have taken a path to a cheap show-down by investing a bit smaller amount (40% to 60% of the pot) on flop and just check/calling on turn and river.

Your opponent's flat call with 64o is just awful, I have to add.
Terrible.


in the end that wouldve been best but as i sad 100 200 blinds and the were about to raise again was getting shortstacked plus this guy was playing tight so my allin was more to get him out in case of magic river but ohwell it happend lets move on xD



I will reply to your other post later as heading out to see Santa later but seeing as this is a quick one can I just say your thinking is wrong.

If the guy is playing tight and has still called you twice, you are going to be behind his range nearly every single time. And that mean shoving into him when you are behind is a losing play.

Sorry dude, but you DID play it badly. You can listen and learn and discuss properly and learn from it, or you can keep doing the same things over and over and over again.

Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results is insanity Smile

Post hands, but do NOT post results, and I promise you the feedback you will get will be invaluable

------------
Posted by Skpmorita:

what i mean is you should always call when you have 50+% to win .. i hate when people say i have big pair but i "feel" an ace is gonna come so i am gonna fold .. you can fold sometimes depending if you wanna survive a bubble or something but not just because you know you gonna lose ..
depending on some situations you can call with 40% or even less .. it is reasonable , depending




In a poker game, to be able to get to the big playing places you need to win quite a double ups.

If you are pushing in with only 50%, then you are gonna invariably bust way more than you need to.

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Posted by arrow-knee-:

im sorry but i hve to call b******t here this makes no sense you leave out so many thigns so your story is true


You can call bs all you want, it wont change the fact that 1) you played the hand badly and 2) if you don't recognise that you will continue to lose money

Posted by arrow-knee-:
1. that you hate to raise minum is your problem i think its a normal play instead of rampaging all in go play bingo


min raise is a horrid play in just about every form of poker. This isn't opinion, this is well known and well studied. But to put it in prospective for this hand. You min-raised UTG with Ace and a weak kicker. And by doing so, you gave odds for plenty of other people to join the party, making it even less likely you will be ahead. Sure, when you win you will win a bigger pot, but most times you will lose. You know, AT v 64 is only a 63% shot to win aipf. You are never gonna make money out of that play

Posted by arrow-knee-:
2. as you see the blinds are 200 400 the average here is about 8 to 10k i believe i make the small bet under the gun wich is not a poor move as you make it out to especially with A 10 he is in middle position he calls 400 6632 is his stack i give that calling 400 in is not much but then he cals a raise of 1660 wich is more then 25% of his remaining stack with bottem pair this is the point where he should have folded if he knows how to play poker he calls in again there is no straight nor flush chance for him at this point then the 7 drops his chances of hitting straight are out the window he knows this for the rest im just gonna copy skipmorita' s post


Forget what he should have done. It doesn't matter. What you need to focus on is what YOU should have done. You state he is very tight. You state he keeps calling. What exactly do you think he has? What do you think he thinks you have. I would put you on ace-high as played (hard to tell because you posted hands and results).
If you aren't pot committed on turn then that makes you play even worse. You bet preflop and let someone into a pot cheap. You pot bet on the flop and got called by someone you think is very tight. And then you still blow the rest of your chips with just top pair.

Posted by arrow-knee-:
this is so wrong in many levels
1*calling any raise even if it is min from early position with 6 4 off is bad bad play , unless from late position / or defending your blinds


Not necessarily. It isn't a good play but its not as bad as you make out. Implied odds and all that. If he thinks you have AK or AQ and will pay him off when he hits, and IF he has a plan take the pot down later then its not as bad as you think.
Regardless, this isn't about his hand, it is about yours.

Posted by arrow-knee-:
2*betting pot shows weakness ? in some cases but with their stacks .. it is obv top pair with good kicker .. there is nothing wrong to bet pot with top pair top kicker .. make the draws pay you off
3*he was ahead all the time , you read the hand wrong


Yes, it shows you don't have a great hand.

Posted by arrow-knee-:

i don't understand why people defending these ***** guys
he had bottom pair no kicker no draw and he called all-in bet against top pair top kicker
IT IS BAD PLAY .. there is no need to find explanations for these idiots


No, its a bad spot to be in. That is completely different to a bad play. I don't know his stats so I cant say if its a bad play. I can however say that just because you were ahead, doesn't mean your play was any better than his. In MOST cases you would be behind and yet you kept betting into him. That is why your play is bad.

Posted by arrow-knee-:icequeen even though your comment makes no sense i wish you the best of luck in the tables on the tables and under the tables

arrow-knee- Big Smile


I wish you luck too. I am trying to help even though by helping you be a better player its -EV for me Tongue

Let's be clear though, me posting what I am is way more useful than anything anyone posts saying stuff like 'oh man you got so ul, the other guys sucks etc'

Even if you disagree, you have had to think about a hand that you basically posted to rant. That can only be helpful, I hope you see that.

Posted by arrow-knee-:
ps: please explain this one i cant understand how t f you came to this conlusion

you pot bet, which showed weakness


Because of the line you took.

You probably would bet more with a better hand than just AT, or you may have call/raised (preflop). Regardless, at no point does it look like you have a strong hand. Then a pot bet (with rubbish which lets be clear, you DO have rubbish), smacks of desperation.
What you actually said to your opponants is 'I have a poor hand and I want to end the hand here and now, I don't want it to go to showdown'. Which is fine if you DO want people to call but you didn't, you bet to make people fold and that showed.
You represented a poor hand when you had a poor hand. The fact you were ahead changes NOTHING about the result.





hmmm.... Smile

     
  6-Dec-15, 16:36   #22
  0 
xgcsnippy 

Joined: Jan '13
Location: Canada
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1066
You wanna see b******t rigged hands, play spin and goes. Nuff said, you can just about call every possible outcome every single time on the river whether its your way or the other way. I believe its rigged to create the action, not so much in favor of any player!

     
  6-Dec-15, 21:11   #23
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (F)
Posts: 2368
Note to self, don't try and help fish on these forums, its a waste of time

     
  6-Dec-15, 23:02   #24
  0 
teddybears73 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 62 (M)
Posts: 3330
Posted by IceQueenAce:
Note to self, don't try and help fish on these forums, its a waste of time


Oh well i was going to ask your advice,no point now is there ?.......
Big Smile

     
  7-Dec-15, 06:16   #25
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (F)
Posts: 2368
haha you're not a fish!

     
  7-Dec-15, 08:00   #26
  0 
arrow-knee- 

Joined: Jul '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 560
Posted by IceQueenAce:
Note to self, don't try and help fish on these forums, its a waste of time


thnx for insult to injury
i actually read your whole post and i understand it now
just needed it to sink in but i get where your aiming at
i gues my perspective of looking at it is wrong
anyway thanks for taking your time to explain why you think its like that Big Smile Thumbs Up

------------
btw one more question i know A 10 isnt a monster begin hand preflop but AJ and AQ are they? i mean the offsuits more and more i dont feel like playing them if the call is high preflop

Edited by arrow-knee- (07 December 2015 @ 12:10 GMT)


     
  7-Dec-15, 16:12   #27
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (F)
Posts: 2368
Posted by arrow-knee-:
Posted by IceQueenAce:
Note to self, don't try and help fish on these forums, its a waste of time


thnx for insult to injury
i actually read your whole post and i understand it now
just needed it to sink in but i get where your aiming at
i gues my perspective of looking at it is wrong
anyway thanks for taking your time to explain why you think its like that Big Smile Thumbs Up

------------
btw one more question i know A 10 isnt a monster begin hand preflop but AJ and AQ are they? i mean the offsuits more and more i dont feel like playing them if the call is high preflop


hi

fish comment wasn't aimed at you per-se. what I was trying to get at, in a cackhanded humourous way that clearly failed, was these forums suck for getting meaningful strategy going. apologies

I don't like aj at all and im not a fan of aq.
it is easily dominated yet played as a monster by many (myself included)

when I used to use pokertracker a lot I spent some time looking at hands and profit for each hand.

aj was a massive losing hand for me. and I still haven't lernt my lesson!

     
  23-May-19, 13:55   #28
  0 
thejonas2 
Joined: May '19
Location: Venezuela, Bolivarian Republic of
Age: 19 (F)
Posts: 11
a win some, ya lose some, and some ya just can't fathom. I have studied this hand for a few minutes now and can see no rhyme nor reason why this happened.... Other than...... that's poker. Sometimes these freak things happen and the odds gods went with the crazy player. Give it a punt and you just never know what may come of it....we've all done it...... Haven't we?


     
  24-May-19, 11:26   #29
  0 
3pokeronly 

Joined: Jul '12
Location: New Zealand
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 272
My 2c,

Min raising is a fine play, as long as you are chip leader, heads up for the win, at big big blind levels and the other player is playing a little weak, if all of these conditions are met, go for it.

The only other thing I have to say here is that the advice in the above posts is posted in good faith and with, in most cases years of experience, take it the way it is intended and learn from it or try to understand where they are coming from completely before re-ranting at the lovely peeps (esp. IQA)

Gl all mobsters
3p out


     
  24-May-19, 13:44   #30
  0 
thejonas2 
Joined: May '19
Location: Venezuela, Bolivarian Republic of
Age: 19 (F)
Posts: 11
The only other thing I have to say here is that the advice in the above posts is posted in good faith and with, in most cases years of experience, take it the way it is intended and learn from it or try to understand where they are coming from completely before re-ranting at the lovely peeps

     
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