Joined: Jan '08
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Have anyone watched it? I have found it yesterday and in the beginning it touches the subject of Money Masters and then it expands into several other topics. I fell asleep at half of it and I don`t know where it ends up.
Joined: Oct '08
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Posted by Predobar: Have anyone watched it? I have found it yesterday and in the beginning it touches the subject of Money Masters and then it expands into several other topics. I fell asleep at half of it and I don`t know where it ends up.
Is that poker movie or smth ? Any clue where i can see that online ? ty mate
Joined: Oct '07
Location: Sweden
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It's a ,in lack of better words, conspiracy movie. The solution they present in the movie is an utopia (the vulcan project) where we all live happy without money, greed or class societies by the help of technical solutions, in other words - communism. I think it's funny that the makers of the movie paint out a picture of communism but they never mention that in the movie.
In theory communism is a great, but as history has shown communism does not work when you apply it to the real world. Mao Zedong anyone? Kim Jong Il? Is THAT the kind of world you want to live in? Beacuse I surely don't.
Joined: Jan '08
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It's a ,in lack of better words, conspiracy movie
While this is true to some point about Zeitgeist 2, because it offers some alternatives etc., Money Masters IS NOT conspiracy movie. Zeitgeist 2 touches this topic in the beginning when it is explaining how financial institutions are controlling the world. Money Masters provides in depth story about central banks and fractional banking system and it has nothing to do with conspiracy, it is more educational video about financial mechanics of modern world and how it affects common people.
where we all live happy without money, greed or class societies by the help of technical solutions, in other words - communism
I don`t think that financial system without money has anything to do with the communism. Communism is ideology which uses money, to begin with. Just because there is no money involved in transactions it does not mean that You cannot have freedom of speech and other liberties which are denied in communism. Only link that connects it to communism is that products are used for benefit of the people and indirectly the fact that there will be no owners of big corporations which is not because of the ideology but because of the fact that such corporations would not produce any profit at all and therefore ownership of such company offers no gains or losses making the ownership "worthless" or pointless (whichever suits you the best).
Mao Zedong anyone? Kim Jong Il? Is THAT the kind of world you want to live in?
Those leaders has nothing to do with communism, they were dictators who were hiding behind communism and thus you can`t call that system communist when it is pure dictatorship. Reason why you can point this to those leaders is because communism as a system allows one person to be head of the state for long time and it is easier to associate one person with atrocities then to associate lets say 15 people, which is case in modern capitalistic democracies. USA has made more atrocities then Kim Jong Il or Mao Ze Dong but You did not hear much about it until late 80`s or even early 90`s because USA was in a state of cold war where propaganda machine could not admit that USA staged assassinations of Nicaragua or Panama leaders because they did not obey their politics, or that CIA employed both Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden as their operatives to fight for USA interests. Just because You don`t hear about it on news or read in the newspaper it does not mean that it did not happen. Hitler used same propaganda to create public opinion and same was done in all other countries prior and after the WW2, but You will not hear that Stalin killed more people then Hitler during WW2 or that USA killed three times more Vietnamese people with chemical warfare then it did in combat. If you don`t believe me here are the links to both WW2 death toll charts and Vietnam war page.
in Vietnam war page there are 2 separate chapters about chemical warfare and casualties.
EDIT: Stalin`s victims are not only from WW2 but prior to WW2 too. for those who don`t know Poland was split between Stalin and Hitler in the beginning of the WW2. There are documentaries about it from western countries and from former USSR republics. And there is CONSPIRACY theory that explains why did that happen.
Joined: Oct '07
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First of all, I know about how money is created, fractional reserve banking system, money is created as debt and has no substantial value connected to it (like gold).
So you say Mao was just hiding behind the communism? Can't handle the truth? Mao was a communist and you can't deny that, by saying he was just hiding behind it. But maybe you want a "Great Leap" again? Maybe not enough people died last time?
I am very well awared of what kind of operations USA have been involved with, thank you, still when we look at the history and have the facts it shows us that the ideology that has killed most people is communism. You can't deny that and that's why all communist go around and say: "the leaders were just hiding behind the communism" It's similiar to what the new nazis are trying to do: "there were no concentration camps, hitler never signed any documents about the holocaust" and etc etc. Why that? Because, they know if they have ANY shot of getting back to politics it's by denying their history because what idiot wants an another Hitler? What idiot wants an another Mao?
When your beautiful utopia has applied, and all the people are happy and bla bla bla, who will make sure that everyone gets a fair share of the resources? A "company"? A "leader"?
Also in your utopia, who will take care of the trash? I mean, why would I go around and throw out peoples garbage when I know the one who works in the liquor store has the same salary as I have minus the smell of the garbage? Why would I work so hard to become a doctor when I know the one who takes out the trash has the same salary as I have? If people can't get a benefit from working why would they work? When they can just sit around and collect the resources just like the ones that are working? Greed makes the world evolve.
Joined: Jan '08
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So you say Mao was just hiding behind the communism? Can't handle the truth?
Read this please. You don`t have to read entire article, just the first chapter or use common sense in determining did so called communist countries ever really achieved this ideal or in the end it turned up as different kind of ruling class in power. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist
If you can accept what is written in first chapter then Your statement that communism killed more people is not true.
It's similiar to what the new nazis are trying to do: "there were no concentration camps, hitler never signed any documents about the holocaust"
And I agree that this is total nonsense but I don`t know how can You say that Mao was not dictator or Kim, or Hitler for that matter.
Also in your utopia, who will take care of the trash?
It is not my utopia nor did i wanted to defend it in any way. I just wanted to point out that is has nothing to do with communism. Who will take care of trash? I don`t have an answer to that but take a look on that issue from this point. Why all the robots and devices resembling robots in their tasks are created only to benefit one thing and that thing is creating more wealth to already rich owners. How come that there is no law and garbage disposal system which will benefit from combination of standardization of garbage disposal and robotic sciences. First obstacle they have to tackle is patent rights which are expensive because of that system, second is government which is borrowing money from people who benefit most from this system and third obstacle is portion of populace which will never produce anything for the community because of their nature, which is btw something you inherit from your parents in earliest days of your life but that is totally different subject .
If people can't get a benefit from working why would they work?
I see that you are from Sweden, i`ll put an example from Sweden. With all social politics sweden has offered to its citizens in the past, this has changed slightly recently when more conservative party won elections, when it comes to employment and government offering jobs to anyone willing to take the job, there were still 3% or 4 %, correct me if i`m wrong, of population who decided that they will rather not work at all and live of the social help given by state. Those people will try not to work in any system and they will never benefit society in any system, whether it is democracy or communism. Maybe in dictatorship will they be put to some use to society.
Greed makes the world evolve.
What if we, we as society, would teach our children that it is not moral to make profit on others, which is not moral when You look deep into it. What if we teach our children that it is not ultimate goal to be better then others but to help others achieve the same things as others. Would not those things make humans evolve even further and not only in technology but also in something called ethics. Is that communism, something else or common sense? Who knows maybe I am the new Stalin or Mao. EDIT: who will be overseeing resource sharing, just try to think what philosophy is behind this problem. Why would anyone be a doctor? For the same reason as most of the doctors became doctors today and that is to heal others, not money.
I have one question which You don`t have to answer if You feel uncomfortable, how are you related to ex-Yu?
Joined: Oct '07
Location: Sweden
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Posted by Predobar: I have one question which You don`t have to answer if You feel uncomfortable, how are you related to ex-Yu?
I will come back to your post later as I have no time to debate
Related in many ways with ex-Yu. I'm a croatian born in the ex-Yu in a city called Jajce, now in Bosnia. Maybe you heard of that city? AVNOJ? Yu was "created" there? I was in the war until Jajce was taken by the serbs and we had to capitulate, then I fled the country with my wife and my two sons (who already were in Split with their aunt) to Sweden as I saw no future for my sons there. I did not want them to grow up with gunshots and bombs dropping near them when they played outside. Living in Sweden for about 16 years now.
What is your connection if I may ask?
(really long posts we're posting, huh . I don't think anyone cares to read them except me and you? )
Joined: Sep '08
Location: Australia
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Excellent movie, politics just doesn't work when money is involved.
Communism doesn't work just as democracy doesn't work in its current forms. The idea's of both are great, but with the reserve bank's and the corruption neither will work properly.
People Bash communism because of the propoganda against it, most people have no idea what communism really is, just like they dont understand what democracy or "free" means. The are more 'slaves' in a democracy, they are not stuck on a lead, but they are still controlled.
"Whats in it for me?" - is basically what the world revolves on.
Whoever says the claims are a conspiracy, got any proof? look into it, the video makes sense. Btw, how is this a conspiracy -
"Definitions of conspiracy:
a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot) a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose"
. I don't think anyone cares to read them except me and you? 
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