Joined: Oct '08
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Happened to me and i've used/been involved in it many times. I play a lot of DON's and if there's only one short stack, and you're down to the last 4/6 or 6/10, calling their "all in" when others already have, then checking to the River is the common play. As far as I know, it's not against "house rules" , and ir's also the best strategy. but is it fair play to most poker players or a bit underhand?
Joined: Dec '07
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let me get this right... it's bubble in a DoN... someone is all-in and there is a call(s)... correct?? if you're gonna check it to the river - then why do you call?????? - if callers' hands worse than the allin's then you're just tripling (or more) them up and possibly put yourself at risk - if your hand is better than the callers' and allin's - then you gonna win and end DoN - if your hand is better than the callers' but not allin's - then you win nothing and just triple+ alliner - if your hand is worse than the other callers' - you lose and hope that caller's hand is better than the allins'
you see my point?
as for the whole "concept" of checking to the river on the bubble if someone is all-in - it's not against the rules (unless there was an "agreement" in chat or something - then it's collusion)... players know about it and do it themselves (as you do)...
Joined: Aug '09
Location: Chile
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It's a common practice and it doesn't have nothing wrong. Everyone want to win the DON and calling the short stack all in make your probability to win higher.
If the short stack double up, the things will get worse for the remainder players and none want that.
The big mistake short stack is wait until his fold equity is 0, so when he is all-in, calling him is very easy. He should push before his FE dissapear but if he does not do that, he may be deserve to lose in a cooperative play .
Joined: May '09
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Posted by m0n0: let me get this right... it's bubble in a DoN... someone is all-in and there is a call(s)... correct?? if you're gonna check it to the river - then why do you call?????? - if callers' hands worse than the allin's then you're just tripling (or more) them up and possibly put yourself at risk - if your hand is better than the callers' and allin's - then you gonna win and end DoN - if your hand is better than the callers' but not allin's - then you win nothing and just triple+ alliner - if your hand is worse than the other callers' - you lose and hope that caller's hand is better than the allins'
you see my point?
as for the whole "concept" of checking to the river on the bubble if someone is all-in - it's not against the rules (unless there was an "agreement" in chat or something - then it's collusion)... players know about it and do it themselves (as you do)...
the point of calling there is that u don't know whose hand is/will be better and as the player going allin is a short stack its worth taking the risk if u have chips to spare. but if you are just borderline then its best to fold.
Joined: Nov '08
Location: United States
Age: 58 (M)
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It is very common in ALL poker games, to check down an allin when there are multiple players in the pot. It is not collusion, but, a tactic, even a facet of poker etiquette.
It is also common for a dominant hand to bet the 'dry side pot'. A way of saying 'I have this one'. It is also common for donks to bet a 'dry side pot' with fairly weak hands, which is idiotic, but what donks do....
It is common, but if it were me. I would be trying to make the most out of it and start raising to take in some more chips. If I don't win the main pot, then I would want a side pot to win that would make up for the call. If u see what I mean.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
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Posted by ih8usukouts: It is common, but if it were me. I would be trying to make the most out of it and start raising to take in some more chips. If I don't win the main pot, then I would want a side pot to win that would make up for the call. If u see what I mean.
Makes no sense at all. If shorty busts, the game is over. No point in collecting more chips.
Joined: Nov '07
Location: Belgium
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Then again why bother getting involved and create a multiway pot when a shortstack is shoving.
Position is key in tournaments, regardless MTT, Sngs or Don.
In this case its a DON, so lets say :
Shorty shoves first, there is a caller in front of U, and U have AK. i would fold anyway. Let the shorty gets busted out I dont see the point in getting involved. Then again : If U are involved, its very common people check it down to the river in any kind of tournament VS a shortstack. But this is the case when there is only one pot. No need to bluff if there are no sidepots involved.
playing ona table vs SStacks = position is key. Don't raise preflop with marginal hands for lightstealing if U have a shortstack or multiple stil to act. U might get frisky and call the odds, but then I would be happy to see U lose making those plays.
Joined: May '08
Location: Sweden
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Just yesterday I played a DoN where this situation came up. I was not involved, but one of the callers raised on the turn, and the other folded, but went ballistic in the chat. I don't know french, but he definetly called the other guy an idiot, and wrote something about just losing one more player.
So, at least according to that player, it seems at it was not fair to raise. (the shortstack had the raiser beat with some sort of ace. If you cant beat an ace, then maybe you shouldnt raise in there, was my thought...)
i played a DoN on the bubble with one shortstack. he had less than 1BB but the blinds were quite high, dont remember the exact figure. everyone limped and checked it down to end it there
Posted by Flangel: Then again why bother getting involved and create a multiway pot when a shortstack is shoving.
Position is key in tournaments, regardless MTT, Sngs or Don.
In this case its a DON, so lets say :
Shorty shoves first, there is a caller in front of U, and U have AK. i would fold anyway. Let the shorty gets busted out I dont see the point in getting involved. Then again : If U are involved, its very common people check it down to the river in any kind of tournament VS a shortstack. But this is the case when there is only one pot. No need to bluff if there are no sidepots involved.
playing ona table vs SStacks = position is key. Don't raise preflop with marginal hands for lightstealing if U have a shortstack or multiple stil to act. U might get frisky and call the odds, but then I would be happy to see U lose making those plays.
Liv ftw
If u have read my posts - i would like to think this is my area of expertise - What u say is commonplace - i play sometimes 40-50 a day even more - multiple hands against the short stack (all in) = covering all bases....the objective is to cash......
It does seem like collusion i know and its not nice when ur on the recieving end........but the main point i would make here is to try not to get into this position. I myself never worry about my stack and even hardly play a hand in the first few levels.........the blinds arent worth stealing and its amazin how many risks others will take - get themselves busted out...
Theres a fine line between holding out too long / pushing too early..............this is a balance i believe u will learn after playing these a while.......its about picking the correct spots..........not getting tangled up with the big blind...........you will hardly EVER see me call in a DoN..............its raise or fold simple as.
There are gonna be times when the situation you speak of is unavoidable and its down to good old lady luck - but i will leave you with 2 things well 3 - if u lose a pot and end up short - dont give up - i have seen many a comeback and done it myself many times....
and........sometimes waiting that 1 more rotation........i have seen second stack make a silly all in with the big stack behind him waitin laughin with aces.......its AMAZIN the mistakes people make....
3rdly - Read what flangel wrote. U wont go far wrong. Good luck.
------------ Ps. Where do u play what site if its ok to ask - i play the $6 or $11 on party.....
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
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Posted by mattel:
It does seem like collusion i know and its not nice when ur on the recieving end........but the main point i would make here is to try not to get into this position. I myself never worry about my stack and even hardly play a hand in the first few levels.........the blinds arent worth stealing and its amazin how many risks others will take - get themselves busted out...
Theres a fine line between holding out too long / pushing too early..............this is a balance i believe u will learn after playing these a while.......its about picking the correct spots..........not getting tangled up with the big blind...........you will hardly EVER see me call in a DoN..............its raise or fold simple as.
Joined: Nov '08
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I think it is a little dirty to bubble like that but its a fact of poker ... Everyone just wants to cash so you need to expect that near the bubble.
You said its not nice on the reciving end but think about it this way if you are the shorty and you get 2 or 3 callers you stand a charnce of tripling up or quadrupleing your stack so it aint that bad.... if it works out for you that is.
Joined: Aug '09
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[/QUOTE] the point of calling there is that u don't know whose hand is/will be better and as the player going allin is a short stack its worth taking the risk if u have chips to spare. but if you are just borderline then its best to fold. [/QUOTE] Actually I don't agree. I think you must call with any 2 if the short is going all in and the table want to do a cooperative game. If the short has AA, against 1 player he'll win the 80% of the times, but if he play against 5 players he'll win like 20 percent of the time. So calling with any two and playing check/check until the river improve your chanches to win the DON.
Joined: Mar '08
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LMFAO, PPL talking about DoN strategy. Get shorty LOL Poker is a dirty game, who cars about shorty who tryd to fold all the way now is shoving for dear life, he always dubles up any how then you all go damn anouther half hour of folding, LOL, Im too scard to play the guy with the stack.
Joined: May '08
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Its just normal to check down to the river, any1 who bets is a bad player. Its not collusion, just odds, the more people call the higher odds are shorty will bust.
Joined: Nov '07
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Posted by doomdy: Its just normal to check down to the river, any1 who bets is a bad player. Its not collusion, just odds, the more people call the higher odds are shorty will bust.
Joined: Aug '09
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Posted by doomdy: Its just normal to check down to the river, any1 who bets is a bad player. Its not collusion, just odds, the more people call the higher odds are shorty will bust.
100% TRUE
i play 60-80 dons a day and this situation is very common
Joined: Apr '09
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on a bit of a sidenote, I recently played a DoN on Pokerstars for the first time and I noticed when we reached bubble chat became permanently banned for all players.. I assume this must be standard on PS
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