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Pot went to wrong player |
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Tags:
cake poker, issue, problem.
Posted on 05 February 2010 by "T".
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 Not long ago, a player at Cake Poker was awarded a pot he didn't win. The player who lost the pot (with the best hand) shortly after posted the hand in different forums and received lots of feedback and questions from angry and worried Cake Poker players. However, it didn't take long before Cake Poker took action and said that they would take down the server for 30 minutes and look into the problem. Yesterday, Cake Poker Cardroom manager Lee Jonas answered some of the major questions they had gotten about the hand.
Q: HTF could this happen one out of literally a billion hands? [1] Computers don't just arbitrarily decide to do something differently the 297,446,238th time they do some algorithm.
A: Actually, I got to thinking about that myself. Consider this: any moderately sophisticated computer program probably has a state variable space of almost incalculable size. Take all the variables in the program and the values they can hold. Multiply that by the number of different paths the program might have followed to reach a particular place in the code. Then add in all the interactions between various servers in the system.
Obviously, we had a perfect storm of state variables which caused this problem. We don't believe it's happened before and we definitely don't expect it to happen again. But we're putting in more checks to make sure it doesn't.
Q: What if I think I was the victim of a wrongly pushed pot before?
A: If you have a hand history, send it to our support people. If you want to ask our support folks for your most recent 1000 hands or so, feel free. If you can find (and we confirm) a wrongly pushed pot, we'll ship you $500 for each occurrence. If you were the true winner of the pot and it wasn't pushed to you, we'll send you double the size of the pot plus the $500.
Q: Are you going to tell us what happened when you find out?
A: If there is some clear conclusion about the cause of the perfect storm, then yes, we'll provide some explanation of it. We might not take it down to the technical level, mostly because to explain the entire set of circumstances would probably take three pages, be Greek to 99.99% of the readers, and only result in a bunch of "tl;dnr" responses. But if there is some kind of further information that's relevant and useful to this community, I assure you that we'll share it.
Again, we thank you for your understanding and your patience while we investigate this. It's a huge deal to us and the development team has its best people looking into it.
Thanks again for your continued support.
Best regards,
Lee Jones
Cake Poker Cardroom Manager
[1] The Cake network deals about 1.7 million hands per day.
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31 comments on "Pot went to wrong player"
| psycokiller | 05/02/2010 15:02:35 GMT |
| I guess at the end of the day, everybody sitting at that table recieved a little bonus for there trouble. I will assume that other sites are reviewing their programs to ensure that this anomily doesn't exist in their program
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| SuperNoob | 05/02/2010 15:28:52 GMT |
lol even computer programs are not immune to mistakes, but they spotted it and hopefully it won't happen again as i play there, 
makes you think even more how random are these softwares
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| teteban | 05/02/2010 16:42:46 GMT |
Well...the first explanation about the "perfect storm of variables" sounded extremely fishy to me. Either that, or the designers are all asses for letting other processes tamper with what essentially must be very local variables (the hand in question)
The second explanation is more sensible, I'm ready to buy that (and probably would be very easy to spot in the server logs)
still it amazes me that it isn't a very uncommon situation, and it's weird it didn't happen before...
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| Fakiry | 05/02/2010 17:11:43 GMT |
| I am sorry about my ignorance but explain me one thing: the image has nothing to do with the story, right? Because at the picture there's a flush with A winning to a flush with K, which is absolutely correct. But just of thinking the computer might be wrong with some decisions puts me wanting to confirm a lot of hands i've lost before... wow, this is a huge problem that can be raising from this news.
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| dorinba | 05/02/2010 17:29:32 GMT |
I only want to say that all programs are maked by the people and people usaly make mestakes, so programs make mistakes too.
And other thing all may be is maked correct, bu can be exceptional situation when program will not work correct and can apear some mistakes. Trust me, I see enough times programs that work very well in some situation make errors. So I think if it happen once per year we dont need worry about it, but if it happen often the you just need contact support.
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| fcumred | 05/02/2010 17:31:51 GMT |
Fakiry, look at the picture closer..
Look at where the money is being shipped to..
------------
This isnt the first time thjis has happened. I happened two years ago in a game on Ultimate with Phil Hellmuth in the hand, thus lots of people witnessed it.
Glitches happen.
Not long ago I was in a rebuy on FTP. I won the hand, but hte computer for some reason took the chips from me and booted me out the game saying I'd been KOd
I immediately contacted support who did a check and did spot the very same thing. for some reason the computer had taken the chips from the table and awarded them to nobody.
I got a $25 compensation awaard and the buy in back, plus a nice letter of apology saying it had done it to about 4 people in the same game.
These things happen... Even the most sophisticated computers have brain farts now and then...
Nothing to be overly worried about.
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| Kristan | 05/02/2010 19:03:33 GMT |
All the players got themseves a huge bankroll (if you look at the stakes they were playing) booster by Cakepoker, so they should be happy it happened. I mean In cash table would it be nice if it happened to you and theyd fund you with 500$ 
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| Fackinas | 05/02/2010 19:47:49 GMT |
Posted by Predobar: WTF! What this Lee Jonas character is saying has no logical grounds unless software itself is tempered with. I urge everyone who played a lot of hands on Cake to check for this anomally. Why?! Here is another explanation from Lee Jonas Originally Posted by Lee Jones View Post
Hi all -
Well, our software wonks, after a sleepless night, got the answer.
During the hand in question, there was a player who had missed the blinds and been asked to post a dead blind in the cutoff. He didn't, but somehow there was a perfectly timed lag between the client and the server that caused him to have a "Fold" button presented (though he may or may not have seen it). Probably unknowingly, he clicked a non-existent "Fold" button, which went through to the server. The server has code built in to protect it from extraneous messages such as this (including malicious intent from hacked clients). But it turned out that it didn't have that protection from a dead blind-posting player if the message was something that shouldn't have been coming in anyway (e.g. a "Fold" from somebody who shouldn't be allowed to fold in the first place).
The result of all this was for the system to believe that it had a side-pot between the sitting-out player and the small blind (the guy with the kings). It evaluated that pot, awarded that pot to the small blind, and then had no more pots to award, so it ended the hand.
We've fixed the code and are testing it. There's a pretty good chance we could have gone another four years before we saw this again, but obviously we're not going to wait and find out. The $500 offer I mentioned above stands; we think we've got this one beaten.
As regards the people who were involved in the meteor-strike pot, we're going to treat it like a bad beat jackpot. We're going to ship $500 to the guy who had the ace of trump and should have won the pot in the first place, $250 to the OP in this thread for reporting it, and spread $250 around the other players who were dealt in, including the mystery player who wasn't dealt in but managed to fold anyway. Were it not for him, we'd have never found and removed this bug.
Thank you all for your understanding and patience with us; we appreciate that beyond words.
Best regards,
Lee Jones
Cake Poker Cardroom Managerand here is the link with hand history of that hand http://img502.imageshack.us/i/cakepoker.jpg/Explanation given by L.Jonas is itself confusing and it also has no connection to what he says happened. ------------ WTF! What this Lee Jonas character is saying has no logical grounds unless software itself is tempered with. I urge everyone who played a lot of hands on Cake to check for this anomally. Why?! Here is another explanation from Lee Jonas Originally Posted by Lee Jones View Post
Hi all -
Well, our software wonks, after a sleepless night, got the answer.
During the hand in question, there was a player who had missed the blinds and been asked to post a dead blind in the cutoff. He didn't, but somehow there was a perfectly timed lag between the client and the server that caused him to have a "Fold" button presented (though he may or may not have seen it). Probably unknowingly, he clicked a non-existent "Fold" button, which went through to the server. The server has code built in to protect it from extraneous messages such as this (including malicious intent from hacked clients). But it turned out that it didn't have that protection from a dead blind-posting player if the message was something that shouldn't have been coming in anyway (e.g. a "Fold" from somebody who shouldn't be allowed to fold in the first place).
The result of all this was for the system to believe that it had a side-pot between the sitting-out player and the small blind (the guy with the kings). It evaluated that pot, awarded that pot to the small blind, and then had no more pots to award, so it ended the hand.
We've fixed the code and are testing it. There's a pretty good chance we could have gone another four years before we saw this again, but obviously we're not going to wait and find out. The $500 offer I mentioned above stands; we think we've got this one beaten.
As regards the people who were involved in the meteor-strike pot, we're going to treat it like a bad beat jackpot. We're going to ship $500 to the guy who had the ace of trump and should have won the pot in the first place, $250 to the OP in this thread for reporting it, and spread $250 around the other players who were dealt in, including the mystery player who wasn't dealt in but managed to fold anyway. Were it not for him, we'd have never found and removed this bug.
Thank you all for your understanding and patience with us; we appreciate that beyond words.
Best regards,
Lee Jones
Cake Poker Cardroom Managerand here is the link with hand history of that hand http://img502.imageshack.us/i/cakepoker.jpg/Explanation given by L.Jonas is itself confusing and it also has no connection to what he says happened. |
http://img502.imageshack.us/i/cakepoker.jpg/
somethings wrong I cant open it
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| gatorcountry | 05/02/2010 23:58:07 GMT |
| Wow crazy
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| Predobar | 06/02/2010 00:50:26 GMT |
@fackinas
it works for me just fine although this image is little "transparent" looking
try this one instead:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/5008/doylesroom.jpg
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| rattacha | 06/02/2010 02:56:16 GMT |
| Well, it's happening everywhere. I mean in real life. You must be careful. Anyone can make a mistake. On the other hand it's not good to play somewhere where mistakes are guests. So, if it was one mistake, it's ok, but if it's the first of a many hand history, than Cake can close.
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| GabeKaplan | 06/02/2010 08:51:22 GMT |
| even when you win you lose, i thought about 6 months ago in a tounament at doyles tho i thought i had won the hand, i look looked back at results and it said like something last hand cant be displayed for some reason, the later i relized if 2 hands go by you can look at the one that didnt display, so i have always doubled checked when that happens
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| LaBaiz | 06/02/2010 09:38:35 GMT |
| wow, couldn't believe my eyes with that picture, but some computer glitch happen and thats it, good that there is a reward for this mistake.
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| MANUEDO | 06/02/2010 20:00:56 GMT |
I'm honest: I don't feel like to read all posts before my one, so my question could be seem stupid ( as usual  ). Had the winner his moeny back or not? I wouldn't care a f... to have explanations, I would have my money back
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| BBU | 06/02/2010 21:07:36 GMT |
Posted by karstenkloss:
Wow, that makes me worried to play at them. How something like that can happen on a professional poker-site. I know situations like that from private cash-games, when the dealers are not firm in the rules, but a computer-program should be safe enough, especially when the people play for real money! What they want to give you, when this happens in a big tournament with a big prizepool? So, from me: thumb down for CakePoker! |
+1
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| ZmxPowah | 07/02/2010 14:52:29 GMT |
Aff u say it's bad? That things like it happens? I am thinking of playing there and catching that free 500$ for that bug .
Anyway it's annyoing to loose the winning hand.. i would love to know what that guy who lost was thinking after that hand hyhy.
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| hobbelpaard | 07/02/2010 15:52:25 GMT |
| 500$ for losing a pot of 5.70$ common how sick...
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| sponsorplay | 07/02/2010 20:11:23 GMT |
Crazy! I have nevver played on the Ckae Poker network and this is sure a reason not to play there! This is almost like the crazy stuff that went on on the Absolute Poker network a couple of years ago... 
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| Btownd87 | 08/02/2010 13:22:16 GMT |
Ummm...LISTEN TO THIS!
...That photo only shows part of the pot going to the Pocket Kings.
The other guy could have gone all-in with $0.18, and would have won a pot of $0.36, as the photo clearly shows happened.
Gimme a break.
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| Doomsday_vic | 08/02/2010 14:11:41 GMT |
Well at least Cake is honest about having a glitch. It shows class but their software really needs fixing, especially the auto rebuy option. Can't wait until their new cilent comes out. Hopefully it wont end up like ongames software when that came out..
In the mean time i'll still play on cake 
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| Hajinnho | 08/02/2010 15:08:27 GMT |
| welllllllllllll, that is really really scary. honestly i always have the feeling the pot runs to the wrong player unless it is not me
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| Mober | 08/02/2010 15:56:24 GMT |
| I agree with Hajinnho
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| xxxbchxxx | 08/02/2010 22:59:06 GMT |
Yeah but you cant ask for more than that can you? they'll pay you %500 if they have got it wrong in the past or if it happens to you in the future. thats OK
At least they have put there hands up and said its our fault , it shouldn't happen and when we know what happened we'll tell you.
Good on ya.
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| Fackinas | 09/02/2010 14:35:22 GMT |
Posted by karstenkloss:
Wow, that makes me worried to play at them. How something like that can happen on a professional poker-site. I know situations like that from private cash-games, when the dealers are not firm in the rules, but a computer-program should be safe enough, especially when the people play for real money! What they want to give you, when this happens in a big tournament with a big prizepool? So, from me: thumb down for CakePoker! |
That wont happen in FTP, PS becouse it's great soft and support they so dont play at *%&^$ softs liko dunno what ;D play Full tilt poker, Poker Stars, Party Poker, Unibet, Ultimate bet. Thats all Ipoker Soft sucks too.
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| Airas | 10/03/2010 12:20:04 GMT |
| I have heard that this has happened atleast dozen times, one of my dearest friend caught up in a fight with the support because they didn't want to repay this misfortune.
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