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Joined: Oct '11
Location: Sweden
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1410
I'm gonna be honest here and say that I have never used a HUD, I haven't even thought about getting one. I still make a profit from micro cash games but maybe it would be a good thing to try out...
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 4675
Posted by zeroster:
Posted by kinogomes: Its an accpeted cheat by the sites in order to receive more rake from players!
The fact that it's accepted by the site means that it's within the rules. That, by definition, means it isn't cheating. You saying it's a cheat doesn't make it so. It's only an opinion and, until the sites agree with you, an irrelevant one.
G'day mate
Well damn it i gotta agree with zerostar on this one. If the poker site allows the use of any software package on their site then it is fair to use it weither I or anyone else likes it or not. I do NOT use a HUD. I do own a legal copy of pokertracker3. It was purchased prier to black friday when I lived in the USA. It was purchased from poker profits. I DID try it out for 3 months. I do NOT currently use a HUD because I personally think it hurt MY game play. How you ask? I stopped paying as much attention and started to rely on the HUD to keep track of thing for me. This hurt my live game play as I got into the habit of being lazy.
I developed the attitude within myself that using my HUD was a form of cheating myself.
So to clarify Using a HUD in my opinion is a form or cheating MYSELF. I do not care one fig if someone else uses one at the tables I am playing on online.
Thought I better clear that up a bit. sorry for the misunderstanding from my prior half arsed post which I wrote when I was both tired and ticked off. Mobsters deserve better from me and its members.
Be cool and good luck at the tables.
such a long post and I dont even get any mob points for it. lol
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by RoninHarper: because I personally think it hurt MY game play. How you ask? I stopped paying as much attention and started to rely on the HUD to keep track of thing for me.
This is actually surprisingly common.. It's an important thing to remember about HUDs - they don't magically make you a better player and if you don't spend the time to learn how to actually use them to your advantage, you'll probably end up losing money with them.. Not that I know from personal experience, I'm yet to use mine, but I've heard this same thing from many players!
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
I only found out that sharkscope as locking stats last week. And no that wasnt happening in the past Mysik. And the note i got from Sharkscope was, that the player chose to lock the stats.
If they were locking all the stats, what would be the point of such program or site to exist in the first place ???
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 979
Posted by retribution: A hud DOESN'T track things like:
- What their hole cards are - What they had for lunch - If they got laid in the last week - If they got laid, the % chance that it was with your mom.
And so on.
i have to disagree with your last point, you just have to look at how many hands youve tracked/played with them for lol
------------ its all about knowing how to interpret the hud
------------ btw to stay on topic with the orginal post, at the moment i dont use a hud, i have to buy a new copy of poker tracker, but i do perfer using one, it does benefit me because i find it helps me out a little more in marginal situations. a hud actually really helped me when i learned how to use it, it increased my post flop pot stealing a ton in the micros which led me to making 20-30 more BB per 100 hands, i have a problem without my hud of trying to steal off everyone and i usually bluff at the wrong time a lot, but when i had my hud with the numbers in front of me saying DONT BLUFF THIS GUY it really helped me to stop bluffing them, it also helped me figure out who the real grinders were because those were the guys i could bluff and actually outplay because they understood what a 3 bet/continuation bets check raise type stuff meant, they just werent very experienced in dealing with it so naturally it was easy to work my magic on them, i like to call the micro grinders chipmunks because they go hungry unless they have the nuts, so if you recognize a grinder in micro, u can bluff the s**t out of them and if they play back at you, fold. lol
i suggest using a hud to anyone, the statistics also help you understand why you are making plays in certain situations and can help develop an understanding of several bits and pieces of what is poker and how to play it, you just have to know how to apply this information and figure how to calculate it mentally when you are playing live or without a hud, pokertracker helped my game a lot, it taught me things i didnt even know to look for until i started using it.
I ALSO FEEL LIKE ITS CHEATING BUT IT IS EXTREMELY HELPFUL AND WELL WORTH THE EDGE.
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 4675
G'day Amigo
I find it interesting that you feel using a HUD is cheating and yet you both use and highly recommend there use to others. I am not sure how to interperate that information, perhaps if I was using my HUD I could figure it out. Lol
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Greece
Age: 58 (M)
Posts: 66
Posted by retribution: Basically a HUD only tracks arbitrary stats, such as:
- how often a player calls or raises - how often they 3-bet - What their call vs raise % is.
All things any player carefully watching the table would be able to pick up.
That's exactly the point! A HUD allows any clueless idiot to have EFFORTLESSLY the same information that a good player would have through his ability, knowledge and EFFORT. Where I come from, this is called cheating! The fact that most sites allow them (for the time being) doesn't mean anything else other than that they are beneficial for their profits. Nobody argued about if they are legal or not. The argument is about the moral part. And anyway there are sites that forbid them already, tomorrow many more may decide to forbid them. Does that make them cheating on one site but not cheating on another? The bottom line is, gaining an edge over your opponents through technical means by just spending a few dollars and NOT by increasing your knowledge and improving your playing ability, is called cheating in my vocabulary.
Edited by Phoenix2104 (21 January 2013 @ 07:48 GMT)
Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 58 (M)
Posts: 1372
Posted by Phoenix2104
That's exactly the point! A HUD allows any clueless idiot to have EFFORTLESSLY the same information that a good player would have through his ability, knowledge and EFFORT.
Any clueless idiot can also have that information by manually keeping track and working out the stats. The information in itself gives no advantage if you don't know what to do with it. It will not give a clueless idiot any edge whatsoever, in fact it's more likely to harm his game in the long run because he'll never figure out the basics for himself
And anyway there are sites that forbid them already, tomorrow many more may decide to forbid them. Does that make them cheating on one site but not cheating on another?
The simple and obvious answer to that is yes.
And I'm going to say this again; If the site allows it then it isn't cheating no matter what anybody else's opinion may be. That's just a cold hard fact.
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
hey one more point that was hardly mentioned in this topic....question was "do you use hud in micro stakes cash games?"- now we must think for a sec here...playing micro stakes cash games, your roll probably around $50-100 mark at the very most...now could you shell out $60 for small stakes hem 2 version out of your roll?
Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 58 (M)
Posts: 1372
Posted by pochui: hey one more point that was hardly mentioned in this topic....question was "do you use hud in micro stakes cash games?"- now we must think for a sec here...playing micro stakes cash games, your roll probably around $50-100 mark at the very most...now could you shell out $60 for small stakes hem 2 version out of your roll?
Yep, that's the reason I don't use one. That and I don't think I'm good enough to fully use the information that it would give.
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 979
you'd learn how to use the information a lot quicker then not knowing what the information is that your suppose to be lookin for, in all honesty if using tracking software harms your game over an extended period of time then you should just not play poker, it took me about 1k hands to figure out exactly how to interpret the information and use the software and i was still winnin at a much higher rate which grew a little more after that but stayed consistent, i think ive uploaded the picture of my graph on here before(people called it a heater because it was such a small sample, but after gettin a larger sample my bb/100 never varied much[other then when i went on spazz and would dump my roll in an orbit of extreme tilt and misfortune]). HEM or PT are essiental components to being a extremely successful ONLINE grinder... even the LIVE PROs use it when playing online lol i still think that morally its cheating because its not playing the game properly but its whatever in my book whether people choose to use it or not because in the end it comes down to the online companys to decide for us.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by Jibberish: you'd learn how to use the information a lot quicker then not knowing what the information is that your suppose to be lookin for, in all honesty if using tracking software harms your game over an extended period of time then you should just not play poker, it took me about 1k hands to figure out exactly how to interpret the information and use the software and i was still winnin at a much higher rate which grew a little more after that but stayed consistent, i think ive uploaded the picture of my graph on here before(people called it a heater because it was such a small sample, but after gettin a larger sample my bb/100 never varied much[other then when i went on spazz and would dump my roll in an orbit of extreme tilt and misfortune]). HEM or PT are essiental components to being a extremely successful ONLINE grinder... even the LIVE PROs use it when playing online lol i still think that morally its cheating because its not playing the game properly but its whatever in my book whether people choose to use it or not because in the end it comes down to the online companys to decide for us.
1300 hands isn't an accurate hand sample either, sorry to inform you. Try running around 10K MINIMUM, before you can start to get a somewhat accurate picture. Even then, heaters/coolers and other factors can skew results.
As for being able to interpret stats easier than learning how to just play straight up, that logic is just completely off base. Knowing how to interpret how a players VPIP, PFR and AF are nothing, if you can't use that information to apply a range to said opponent. For example:
UTG:
Someone who is 12/9/3 opens for 3x. Someone who is 33/20/9 opens for 3x.
Please give me an idea of what you'd expect each person to have, and WHY you came to that conclusion.
LP, everyone folded to HJ Someone who is 12/9/3 limps in. Someone who is 33/20/9 limps in.
Again, put opponent on range, and explain WHY.
Point is a HUD is completely useless in the hands of a novice player. Knowing what the stats means is a hell of a lot hard to guess, if you don't at least understand the basics of poker. Basics like floating, 3betting, position play and blind stealing are all aspects that your average player has no clue about. Therefore, how do you think someone who's looking at a bunch of random numbers is going to know what they mean.
Sure, I WILL grant you that knowing someone who is 33/20/9 means they are a lot looser than someone who's 12/9/3. Any idiot can figure that out. But how that translates into what they have, based on their position and previous action is only something that comes from a lot of study and experience.
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 979
WHY DO YOU ALWAYS TYPE SO CONDESCENDINGLY TO EVERYONE WHO HAS A DIFFERENT OPINION, are you trying to troll me or did you not process what i wrote through your brain before you went off on that. i think you need to configure your HUD also because their is stats for 3bet/stealing/defending/sb vs bb/how often they raise from any position and they probably have one for floating by now. i dont like that your trying to 'talk down to me' like you really know whats going on. Clearly said i had a larger sample. INTERPRET = UNDERSTAND. IF YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THE STATISTICS MEAN THEN YOU CAN DEVELOP A STRATEGY TO COUNTERACT THE OTHER PLAYERS. you would assume most of this would be obvious and didnt need to be said. the fact that you mention there is other aspects to poker then just "STATS" is quite obvious to, but i was clearly saying HAVING A HUD IS GOING TO HELP.
I AM NOT HERE TO DEBATE WITH YOU. I wrote my opinion and the fact that you think you can sway me from my own thinking to believe that YOU, a shut in who never sees anything other then the micros on his computer screen. honestly, da fack do you know about real poker. have you even actually played it live? your life consists of the same pattern of ABC poker day after day. What do you understand about poker. it is not hard to narrow someones range based on statistics, your acting like being good at poker is some kind of rare artform, it requires a little bit of practise, basic math skills and a good memory. also i already know what your going to say to me next, dont. your clearly saying because some ones new they shouldnt use something to help them understand the game better... i know they are 'novices' as you would state, but how are they going to learn to get better?
...hey weirdo, stop typing the question is rhetorical.
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 979
WHAT I'D REALLY LIKE TO KNOW IS WHY THAT EVERYTIME I VISIT THIS FORUM, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SOMEONE. DO YOU JUST ACT LIKE A CONDESCENDING PRICK WHENEVER POSSIBLE? THIS ONES NOT RHETORICAL BUD.
ALL HAIL RETRIBUTION, HES BEEN GRINDING 2NL FOR 2 YEARS NOW. WHAT A CHAMP.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
I'm also playing a lot with that ticket, at least i did during the weekend, don't know if i will have time to play during week days (which means i don't know if i will be able to make all the points needed to release the money), and i don't use any HUD. But perhaps would be helpfull, i am sure many players at the tables at this moment are people that, just like us, are using their tickets, which means we can be playing several times with the same players and it would be nice to know something more about them.
