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jul
26

ESPN releases new podcast about Phil Ivey's edge sorting case

Tags: edge sorting, Kelly Sun, Phil Ivey.
Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2017 by "T".

Phil Ivey has been fighting against the Crockfords Casino in London and Borgata Casino in New Jersey in a court battle since 2012. The podcast gives us a closer look at these two cases.

Of course, no one ever likes to lose millions worth of money, especially the casinos. That is the most important point from ESPN's 30 for 30 podcast about Phil Ivey and his companion Kelly Sun who "took" millions from the casinos. Their strategy was based on a quite primitive yet effective concept - by exploiting the simple inconsistencies of the cards used in the single-deck baccarat games they played at.

 

 

Kelly Sun - A Queen of Sorts
The podcast titled "A Queen of Sorts" specially highlights Ivey's companion/sidekick and advantage player "Kelly" Cheung Yin Sun as the reason why he was successful in winning millions at the baccarat tables of the private casinos.

Kelly Sun is a daughter of a rich Chinese businessman who often sends her to stay at luxurious accommodations in Las Vegas, in which MGM Grand is tagged as one of her favorites.

The podcast described how she is expected to lose millions on MGM's gaming floor, but the money really isn't a big deal. However, there was one day in 2007 when one of her friends took a $100,000 line in her name, and the unaware Sun chose not to pay up.

As a result, MGM detained Sun, and she spent a few weeks behind bars. After she was finally freed, her experience had left her with retaliation: She wanted to take a casino for millions of dollars.

Sun's use of edge sorting to make the casinos pay
The podcast describes Kelly Sun as a natural advantage player. Her skills developed even more when she began dating a connected gambling man named "Eddie".

Somewhere down the road, Sun particularly set her sights on edge sorting, which is a method of increasing odds of winning by taking note of tiny inconsistencies in the way specific brands of playing cards are cut.

FYI, there are some cards that have borderless patterns running right to their edges. If the cards are not cut to perfection, the pattern (for example, a sequence of circles) could be seen longer on one end of some cards and shorter on the other in some cards of the same deck.
Sun realized that the cards printed by Gemaco had this slightly visible inconsistency that she can use to her advantage.

Sun and Ivey take on Crockfords and the Borgata casinos
With this knowledge of Gemaco cards being imperfect, Sun and Ivey used this and was well on their way to win millions. Their success depends on some factors that the casino must be willing to do for them:

  • Provide a private mini-baccarat table
  • Provide a Mandarin-speaking dealer
  • Seat them on the table so that Kelly Sun can quickly detect the inconsistencies
  • Use of Gemaco cards

 

Through some effective sweet talking, Phil Ivey and Kelly Sun managed to have the Crockfords, Borgata and other casinos to agree with their terms.

Pretty much as planned, Kelly Sun would make small talk with the dealer in Mandarin, talking about cards, luck and pretty much anything about life. At some points in the games, Sun would request the dealer to "turn the cards a certain way" under the notion of it being better luck. The dealers at the Crockfords and Borgata unsuspectingly complied, and so Ivey and Sun went on to win over $20 million.

Two sides of the same coin
By the time the casinos realized what happened, they refused to pay Ivey his winnings. Thus, Ivey filed lawsuits against them, for which up until now have not been resolved.

The legal conflict between Phil Ivey and the casinos is truly an interesting one due to the fact that technically Ivey broke no laws - the use of edge sorting is not illegal. However, the casinos claim that Ivey and Sun's tandem gave them an unfair advantage and that, in itself means, they cheated.

CLICK HERE TO LISTEN TO THE PODCAST

Source: https://www.highstakesdb.com/8031-phil-iveys-edge-sorting-scandals-featured-on-espns-30-for-30-podcast.aspx

 


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14 comments for "ESPN releases new podcast about Phil Ivey''s edge sorting case"

 Gerimantas7/26/2017 6:54:01 PM GMT
This is a very interesting story and the situation ivey is now having with thus casino, I think it will be very hard to make casino to oay the money, because they have very much money can have best lawyers and have contact with politicians so ivey can have problems I think.
 CALICUL7/26/2017 7:17:39 PM GMT
There are many cases in casinos where the winners of big prizes they did not receive the money. They invented all kinds of excuses not to pay those players. In the case of ivey and the other player they found this method. But when they wash away dirty money in their casinos? t's like you said in the comment. His friends... Too many casinos in this world. Much corruption
 Mober7/26/2017 7:42:59 PM GMT
What i see here is more reasons not to give them the money.
The whole thing was planned ahead, with even personal requests about dealers etc.
I doubt they will get somewhere with it.
Now by reading this i thing the judges have more reasons to say no.
 pochui7/26/2017 8:19:45 PM GMT
i personally see this whole situation just as an exploit that ivey and his colleague used to the max and what is most important here, there is nothing illegal they have done, the whole situations arisen only from the careless mistakes made by the casino and it's employees.
 shokaku7/26/2017 8:22:19 PM GMT
Mober, I see it the other way. The players didn't break any rules here, and the casinos agreed to the terms of play. If they took losses that way, they should just pay up, and change their procedings in the future. It is not the job of the courts, to cover the business risk of casinos.
 doubletop7777/27/2017 6:48:44 AM GMT
I find this story fascinating and i cannot wait to see how it plays out. In my opinion, Phil Ivey should be paid out the full amount because i cannot see how he broke any of the rules
 pajalnick7/27/2017 4:42:24 PM GMT
Posted by shokaku:
Mober, I see it the other way. The players didn't break any rules here, and the casinos agreed to the terms of play. If they took losses that way, they should just pay up, and change their procedings in the future. It is not the job of the courts, to cover the business risk of casinos.

Unfortunately the casino will probably be the winner in this business .... of course many people think (and I'm including) that Phil Ivey is right and if the casino made a mistake then his problems ... because if a player commits mistakes then no one returns money to him
 Mober7/27/2017 8:26:51 PM GMT
They didnt go to a table, sat down, saw what was going on with the cards and started
manipulating the whole thing.
They conspired in the first place. They had it planned...

If you went to crack the safe here in brm and you could see, for some reason, or bug,
call it however you like, one of the three numbers, do you think that brm would pay you?
They have this warning : Malfunction and attempts to cheat voids all play and pays! Smile
I guess something like that applies everywhere Smile
 pajalnick7/28/2017 5:30:00 PM GMT
Posted by Mober:
They didnt go to a table, sat down, saw what was going on with the cards and started
manipulating the whole thing.
They conspired in the first place. They had it planned...

If you went to crack the safe here in brm and you could see, for some reason, or bug,
call it however you like, one of the three numbers, do you think that brm would pay you?
They have this warning : Malfunction and attempts to cheat voids all play and pays! Smile
I guess something like that applies everywhere Smile

It seems to me that there is a slightly different situation ..... if the casino could not protect its interests, then it's only his problems .... if you made a mistake and lost your money in a casino then the casino will not return money to you ... I'm for Phil
 Mober7/28/2017 8:51:14 PM GMT
I take it like they did protect their interests. Dont you think so?
They found out what was going on, and they refused to pay them. Smile
Better later than never, dont they say.
They tried to take them for fools, but it didnt quite work for them,
since they never managed to get that money on their hands.
 av19667/29/2017 8:16:05 PM GMT
hello my friends and fellow mobsters

This one is a hard won on one side his the casino take care of there interest and once they track and disclouse the situation they put a alt to it on the other side is Ivey that found a wickness in the system and explore it

On the old time Las Vegas he would be taken for a ride in the desert
 Mober7/29/2017 9:07:57 PM GMT
That might be true with the desert Smile
They had other rules back then.
You never know, they may still be happening in some places.
That was making you think even more times, what you are about to do.
 pochui7/30/2017 12:45:43 PM GMT
i'm not sure about this thing at all, i've read what mober thinks of this situation and i personally think quite the opposite but this separation of opinions just shows that this is quite delicate situation that can be interpreted very differently. will be interesting to hear more on this.

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