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Good players have more beats then bad players?
 

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  18-Jun-10, 15:54   #21
  0   
KDRPKR 
Joined: Sep '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 214
Posted by tongerlo:
it is also what u describe as bad players.
Not many would say Gus Hansen is a bad player but he calls preflop with anything but he is also able to lay hands even if he hits top pair on the table.
Just wanna say that I don't play like Gus. Wish i could but i can't lay cards when i hit A on table sitting with AK.
GL
Spade Club Heart Diamond
By the way i feel bad beaten too when i have AA and get called a raise and end allin postflop and he hit two pair with his J9 suited preflop
Who is the bad player. Me not laying overpair or him improving a not so great hand


You, if the other player is a good player. Wow, am I the only one using logic? Do you understand what logic is?

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Posted by mazas:
yes i agree with u full 100 %
good luck all Tongue


Wow. Really? How is that like?

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Posted by dorinba:
Its very interesting analysis. But all depends what you understand is "bad beat". If I loose at river with my top pair against 2 pair or set for me its not "bad beat", just only unluck.


Lol, the real funny thing is a lot of people think like this, you opened my eyes, thank you. No, it is not 'unluck', you're getting outplayed everytime cause the same player will not give you all of his or her chips with toppair.

Edited by KDRPKR (18 June 2010 @ 15:58 GMT)


     
  18-Jun-10, 18:04   #22
  0   
B1gfoot 

Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6714
Posted by Pjot:
Yes, I think it's quite obvious, and the analysis you made in the opening post really doesn't leave much to discuss.

This is what I always have been telling myself after particulary bad beats. I did the right thing, and he did the wrong.

+1

     
  19-Jun-10, 05:41   #23
  0   
GabeKaplan 
Joined: Jan '10
Location: United States
Age: 56 (M)
Posts: 410
in the long run, law of avg works out, i say 50 50, how many pay attn to bad beat they give because there winning so players only look at when they lose

     
  19-Jun-10, 05:50   #24
  0   
ZmxPowah 
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Poland
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1189
Ofc better players have more bad beats cause they mostly have better hand against weak player , so he can only win by luck sometimes.
And about tournament... you need to be lucky to win one ofc good tournament players are not only lucky but they are playing really much of them to get higher chance.
You cant win a tournament without luck Sad , there is always some coinflip at least.

     
  19-Jun-10, 06:59   #25
  0   
DAGOR 

Joined: Jun '09
Location: France
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 670
Hello everybody!
I answered yes because I often take lol! You forget that the bad players are no longer at the table because they have lost their chips before a bad beat lol!
You soon for new posts lol! Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile

     
  19-Jun-10, 10:36   #26
  0   
godlike666 

Joined: Feb '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 312
i must be fckin awesome then since all i get is bad beats

     
  19-Jun-10, 12:01   #27
  0   
awood88 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1885
I wouldn't say it's a simple answer at all and it's not possible to argue either way as fact since it's such a complex issue, what defines a bad beat and what defines a good player. But since most people seem to be completely in agreement that "good players have more bad beats" I'll argue why the opposite could be true.

Bad players call with more rubbish preflop yes? But even a bad player with 9 10 hole cards will fold a pair if there's an over card on the flop. If the 10 is the top card then most likely other players will fold. But if the flop is 9 10 A then we may get action.
So i'd say that in most situations where bad preflop play and good preflop play meet the hand will end quickly unless the bad player gets in front on the flop. In this case only the good player can deliver a bad beat, even if that player does nothing wrong.

Also bad players are more likely to check that good flop thinking they are trapping but actually allowing others to hit. Good players should be aware of drawing boards and giving opponents a high price to call or ending the hand if they think the opponent is a big enough donk to call. While they cannot stop all donks and sometimes they will get unlucky, good play should minimize awkward situations and dangerous rivers.

Of course good players will get more beats in the long run since their bankroll lasts longer and they play more hands but surely we should count this as a percentage. So good players who play a lot of hands should get a fairly low percentage of bad beats since they play the odds. Bad players who get their chips all-in more often could give and receive a lot of bad beats in their short time they play poker.

     
  19-Jun-10, 16:36   #28
  0   
B1gfoot 

Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6714
LOL awood, nice try at defence.
It is simpple and not complex Tongue
A good player tends not to deliver a badbeat as they know the odds and get out of the hand b4 losing more money, were a bad plaer has no clue and is willing to play on so his % of making a BB is much higher than a good player.
If the good player has overs and outs, then he will only play on if the odds are right, therefor not give a BB to the bad player making top pair on flop. If not(and plays bad odds) he slips in to the bad player catogry and we are back to mainly bad players deliver bad beats.
A good player is more likely to give anouther good player a bad beat than to the bad player.

As a good player, you will get drawn out. This is what you want. If you find you are getting drawn out on a lot, it is a good thing, as you are playing better cards, and will win money in the long run. This is a signe of a good player, taking bad beats. Winning poker players will take more bad beats then losing players because they will have money in the pot with the best of it more often.

     
  19-Jun-10, 16:50   #29
  0   
awood88 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1885
Posted by B1gfoot:
LOL awood, nice try at defence.
It is simpple and not complex Tongue
A good player tends not to deliver a badbeat as they know the odds and get out of the hand b4 losing more money, were a bad plaer has no clue and is willing to play on so his % of making a BB is much higher than a good player.
If the good player has overs and outs, then he will only play on if the odds are right, therefor not give a BB to the bad player making top pair on flop. If not(and plays bad odds) he slips in to the bad player catogry and we are back to mainly bad players deliver bad beats.
A good player is more likely to give anouther good player a bad beat than to the bad player.

As a good player, you will get drawn out. This is what you want. If you find you are getting drawn out on a lot, it is a good thing, as you are playing better cards, and will win money in the long run. This is a signe of a good player, taking bad beats. Winning poker players will take more bad beats then losing players because they will have money in the pot with the best of it more often.


B1gfoot I completely agree with what you say except you seem to have twisted the original statement. The thread is titled good players have more bad beats than bad players, not bad players give more bad beats. I agree that good players shouldn't be as responsible for as many bad beats but that doesn't mean they get more bad beats themselves. In fact it's the opposite since good players are likely to play more good players.

     
  19-Jun-10, 17:07   #30
  0   
tlh666 
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Canada
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 13
a good player gets bad beats as offten as a bad player, the defference is the good player will build a stack first. Aww crap! Aww crap!

     
  19-Jun-10, 17:08   #31
  0   
B1gfoot 

Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6714
@awood88 True. Worship

     
  22-Jun-10, 12:24   #32
  0   
Joe_Average 

Joined: Dec '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 61 (M)
Posts: 735
Posted by KDRPKR:
No, a good player gives bad beats ; )

WRONG! ALL WRONG!
Only Chuck Norris gives bad beats but never gets one! Big Smile

     
  22-Jun-10, 17:45   #33
  0   
okotomi1 
Joined: Aug '09
Location: Germany
Age: 53 (F)
Posts: 1
Bad beats happens to everyone, it is not attact to a good or bad player.

     
  22-Jun-10, 18:10   #34
  0   
Tchungpo 

Joined: Feb '09
Location: Belgium
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 686
I think i will say yes Big Smile
This seems to be a logical reasoning.

I would add another point : Bad players dont even know what is a badbeat.... lol they just see two cards, they like it or not, then they play the hand whatever flop turn or river can brings !
So ^^ only a good player will see badbeat and will report more bad beat Tongue

     
  22-Jun-10, 19:23   #35
  0   
mrnugger 

Joined: Feb '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 751
no doubt about that ! the better you play the higher the possibility to have a bad beat .

     
  22-Jun-10, 22:01   #36
  0   
minisizeme 
Joined: May '10
Location: Sweden
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 6
+1 gl hf

     
  22-Jun-10, 22:22   #37
  0   
SimpLe-SI 

Joined: Oct '09
Location: South Africa
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 92
lately im finding that alot of players cant seem to get away from their hands and still consider a strong starting hand still strong on the flop and turn regardless. by that i mean that certain players pick up AK, AQ, AJ preflop, are missing the flop completely, yet calling bets and re-raises down to the river, only to hit their A on the river and scoop the pot. they just cant seem to fold it on any street

     
  23-Jun-10, 12:52   #38
  0   
MANUEDO 
Joined: Apr '08
Location: Italy
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 1955
Of course yes, just because bad players usually call with almost everything and in any position; they're often dominated and sometimes they win very lucky hands against you ( the good one Big Smile ).
I subscribe giv'us Dunotra back Tongue

     
  23-Jun-10, 21:38   #39
  0   
Hajinnho 

Joined: Jan '10
Location: Germany
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1379
Posted by doomdy:
Is it true?
Good players get more badbeats then bad players?

Fact: Good players get it in more EV+ then EV- right?
So: Lets say 75% they get it in with the best hand preflop/on flop/turn.
So: They get far more in the situation they can get a badbeat then bad players.

Fact: Bad players get it in more EV- then EV+ right?
So: Lets say 75% they get it in with the worst hand preflop/on flop/turn. (thats why they are loosing players)
So: They get not so much situations to get a badbeat cos you cant get a badbeat when ur allready 25%/75% behind right?

So good players get more badbeats then bad players?

[X] Discuss


hmm, lots of mathematics...... it will surely be clever to use this to explain, why i am a loosing player. I just say i am goog but always got bad beats Big Smile Blink

     
  24-Jun-10, 05:50   #40
  0   
xxxbchxxx 

Joined: Nov '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 2194
I dont know if they have more bad beats ... but they defo have the ability to notice and understand the percentages to winning and thuis loosing....
If a dumb ass had a bad beat he might not even realise he was infront with certain hands (omaha im thinking of)
SO when they get beat its of no conciquence as they didnt think they were infront in the first place.

     
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