Hello Mobsters, I'm searching some good advices, perhaps whole articles, videos or whatever can help me to learn how to play MTTs. I'd like to play turbo MTTs with buy in of $1 or $0.55. I know I can google it and find some, but maybe I'll miss something worth reading, so I'd like you to help me if you can I think at this level I'll need to play ABC poker, but I haven't played many MTTs besides freerolls or some $0.10 MTTs, so I know there is a lot to learn, even when it comes to micros.
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im guessing your playing at pokerstars by the buy ins so do you mean the large MTT or the 180 seater sngs as i play both different
hmm then again i dont play them that different, as you say ABC poker tight at the beginning and open up as the blinds get bigger and try to steal them without risking much. oh btw i dont really know any articles but i would suggest the best place to build a roll is the 180 sngs rather than the large MTT in the tourney section
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Thats actually a good thread. There are a lot of things you can learn from other players and not from articles or videos. My experience to mtts is also limited to micro stakes so i could give you some advices. I migrated to cash games after and i built my actual bankroll. Anyway here are some things you should always take care of. FFirstly you always need to know on what part of the tournament you are. Of course you can establish this by the number of big blinds you have in your stack. I recommend to read articles about this subject. Secondly you must realize the chips you lose are way more important that the chips you may win, so firstly make sure you don't lose chips and after think how you can win the most; as you know the basic rule of a mtt is to survive as much as possible and finish in money. Recently i also started to play tournaments but the multi entry tournaments from full tilt poker, 2+20$, full 4 entries, and i can tell you they can really be very profitable. Good luck!
Posted by Flippedchips: im guessing your playing at pokerstars by the buy ins so do you mean the large MTT or the 180 seater sngs as i play both different
hmm then again i dont play them that different, as you say ABC poker tight at the beginning and open up as the blinds get bigger and try to steal them without risking much. oh btw i dont really know any articles but i would suggest the best place to build a roll is the 180 sngs rather than the large MTT in the tourney section
I mean those large ones. 180's right now start at $2.28+0.22 buy in and that's a little bit too much for my bankroll. Maybe I'll try 90's or 45's, but I'd like to play a large MTT from time to time, because there are many awesome tourneys on PokerStars with larger buy in (but still considered as "micro" , so I'd like to know how to play them when I'll have bankroll for them
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Basicly,just start off with what any good MTT article will tell you,play extremely tight at the beginning. I'm also folding AQs here in early position.
When blinds get higher,meaning,when you get close to the bubble,you have to steal and resteal alot. A programm like pokertracker or Holdem Manager will help you alot here since you can steal and resteal alot against people that are very tight or have a high fold-to-3-bet stat. Most pots you'll take down preflop as you get deeper into the tournament.
If you get shortstacked you'll also have to shove much wider preflop than in SNGs. If you have a stack of like 8BB,you'll also have to shove hands like A4s in early position in most cases,what you'd normally not do in a SNG.
On the long run,most of your cashes will come from the deep runs. Don't try to fold your way into the money and use the opponents weakness (at least on the micros this weakness still exists) and steal alot close to the bubble.
The goal is to go deep and not to get into the money,unlike in a SNG. A phase of 30 MTTs without cash isn't that rare,but if you FT a MTT with 3000+ players it will make up for it.
About bankrollmanagement...well,in MTTs it works a little different. In SNGs you count in buy ins. In MTTs,you have to count in ABI (average buy in) since the ideal thing to do is mixing up buy ins,unless you're only going to be a casual MTT player who plays 1-2 MTTs per week. What I mean is,lets say,you buy in for a $1 MTT and a $2 MTT. Then your ABI is $1.50 over 2 tourneys.
A solid bankroll is having the ABI about 100 times I'd say (since,like I said,phases of 30 MTTs without cash aren't that rare if you play MTTs how they're supposed to be played). I myself prefer having the bankroll for 200+ MTTs (according to ABI),but that's just personal preference. That ABI system is also the reason why many MTT-pros play every kind of buy in level- So if you're playing a $2 MTT and see a few supernovas who are also played a $50 rebuy MTT at the same time or something,that's the reason why,they want to lower the variance
btw,if you're playing the absolute micros,such as 10/25 cent MTTs,you have to adapt to the looser opponents there. You will have less fold equity,so stealing or even re-stealing will by far not work as often.
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Play VERY TIGHT! In early stages almost dont play at all! JJ and even QQ you should consider as small pair and never go all in preflop if you know that it will be coin flip. YOU CANT WIN TOURNEY BY DOUBLING UP BUT YOU CAN LOSE IT IF YOU LOSE FLIP! When you get ITM go for 1st place! Dont satisfy with few $ more and get blinded out. Take your chances with flips if you have middle or short stack. If you have big stack be aggressive from position but dont call all ins with bad hands cause your stack can easy became short. PATIENCE!
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Posted by BeMyATMplz: Basicly,just start off with what any good MTT article will tell you,play extremely tight at the beginning. I'm also folding AQs here in early position.
When blinds get higher,meaning,when you get close to the bubble,you have to steal and resteal alot. A programm like pokertracker or Holdem Manager will help you alot here since you can steal and resteal alot against people that are very tight or have a high fold-to-3-bet stat. Most pots you'll take down preflop as you get deeper into the tournament.
If you get shortstacked you'll also have to shove much wider preflop than in SNGs. If you have a stack of like 8BB,you'll also have to shove hands like A4s in early position in most cases,what you'd normally not do in a SNG.
On the long run,most of your cashes will come from the deep runs. Don't try to fold your way into the money and use the opponents weakness (at least on the micros this weakness still exists) and steal alot close to the bubble.
The goal is to go deep and not to get into the money,unlike in a SNG. A phase of 30 MTTs without cash isn't that rare,but if you FT a MTT with 3000+ players it will make up for it.
About bankrollmanagement...well,in MTTs it works a little different. In SNGs you count in buy ins. In MTTs,you have to count in ABI (average buy in) since the ideal thing to do is mixing up buy ins,unless you're only going to be a casual MTT player who plays 1-2 MTTs per week. What I mean is,lets say,you buy in for a $1 MTT and a $2 MTT. Then your ABI is $1.50 over 2 tourneys.
A solid bankroll is having the ABI about 100 times I'd say (since,like I said,phases of 30 MTTs without cash aren't that rare if you play MTTs how they're supposed to be played). I myself prefer having the bankroll for 200+ MTTs (according to ABI),but that's just personal preference. That ABI system is also the reason why many MTT-pros play every kind of buy in level- So if you're playing a $2 MTT and see a few supernovas who are also played a $50 rebuy MTT at the same time or something,that's the reason why,they want to lower the variance
btw,if you're playing the absolute micros,such as 10/25 cent MTTs,you have to adapt to the looser opponents there. You will have less fold equity,so stealing or even re-stealing will by far not work as often.
A big big big +1
Sums it up perfectly, Play2GoDeep. NOT Play2Cash, so much more money to win with Play2GoDeep long run, 200 buyins is ok but I prefer far more, 500+ even 1000+ to give you feeling you can allways play perfectly Play2GoDeep.
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Some pretty ABC advice, but I dont agree with that on this level. You need to take more risk The importend thing is that you buy in minimal, so you feel comfort with taking risks as if it goes wrong you just lose a peanut. Then count all the chips in play and divide it by 9. So if there are 1000 runners with 1000 chips means there are 1million chips in play. Divide by 9 means you gonna need about 100k chips to make it to the final table. Thats your goal and that is what you gonna do. No matter what blind level. Specially the low levels you wanna play a lot of hands, cause on this stake a lot of players like to limp. Do the same. Even with great starting hands and try to trap. Let people play in to you. If you disciplined anough you know when to fold. That means you wont lose big pots, but can win big as many microstakes players overplay/bet/call there premiums and draws. Importend thing is position and from there you should play any intresting hand. At a point if u succeed and have a good stack you need to gamble vs the shortstacks. If you have 12k in chips and a shorty pushes with 1,5/2k in chips go for it. Any decent hand that can flop or have at least one face card. With some luck you manage to get 30k in chips and there is when the ABC poker comes in. Here you start playing solid starting hands, cause you dont wanna waste your chips on gambles anymore as it has no need. Sit tight and before you know you in the money. Now you have 2 options. Be very patiance or go for the win. Option 1 means you try to go deep as possible and only take your chances with premiums. I managed to become 2th once as shortsatck all the time. Bigstack blowing eachother up and before I know I was heads up with my little stack vs a huge mofostack Option 2 is bully your table with your stack. Keep the dynamic high and take risks no matter what. Be a maniac, but one that thinks and calculates a little. This is how you win the donkey maniac turbo tournements. With option 1 its possible too, but you have to eat the fact that if you going for only premiums badbeats are on the look and with option 2 you the one who are the badbeater in most times and if option 2 fails you need to go to option 1 to try to gain as much money as possible after you blow up your nice stack. One thing is sure. Standard ABC poker does not aply for lowstakes turbo tournements and trust me. I play for a couple of years now and speak out of experience. Dont play them too much, cause its not good for your poker, but I do believe it makes you a better player, cause you need to wide up your range and get a lot more tough decisions to make in shorter time. So remember. Win a turbo low stakes tournement means you need to take more risks then you wanna do normal and challance your luck. If you dont turbo tournements are gonna be a frustraded thing to do.
Goodluck!!
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Posted by InFamiz: Goodluck!!
REMEMBER this aply's on turbo's only and not regulars or deepstacks.. Reading the stuff again makes me realize that as a starter it can be confusing as Im not going on details, so feel free if you wanna ask something about it. Im not a pro as I like to withdraw some nice amounts once a while to buy stuff, but consider me a decent MTT player with a nice amount of winnings. Manage to make it 3th once with a no depo bonus in a 5k GRD. Also open for discussion and critism, but plz keep it nice, ok
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Posted by InFamiz: Some pretty ABC advice, but I dont agree with that on this level. You need to take more risk The importend thing is that you buy in minimal, so you feel comfort with taking risks as if it goes wrong you just lose a peanut. Then count all the chips in play and divide it by 9. So if there are 1000 runners with 1000 chips means there are 1million chips in play. Divide by 9 means you gonna need about 100k chips to make it to the final table. Thats your goal and that is what you gonna do. No matter what blind level. Specially the low levels you wanna play a lot of hands, cause on this stake a lot of players like to limp. Do the same. Even with great starting hands and try to trap. Let people play in to you. If you disciplined anough you know when to fold. That means you wont lose big pots, but can win big as many microstakes players overplay/bet/call there premiums and draws. Importend thing is position and from there you should play any intresting hand. At a point if u succeed and have a good stack you need to gamble vs the shortstacks. If you have 12k in chips and a shorty pushes with 1,5/2k in chips go for it. Any decent hand that can flop or have at least one face card. With some luck you manage to get 30k in chips and there is when the ABC poker comes in. Here you start playing solid starting hands, cause you dont wanna waste your chips on gambles anymore as it has no need. Sit tight and before you know you in the money. Now you have 2 options. Be very patiance or go for the win. Option 1 means you try to go deep as possible and only take your chances with premiums. I managed to become 2th once as shortsatck all the time. Bigstack blowing eachother up and before I know I was heads up with my little stack vs a huge mofostack Option 2 is bully your table with your stack. Keep the dynamic high and take risks no matter what. Be a maniac, but one that thinks and calculates a little. This is how you win the donkey maniac turbo tournements. With option 1 its possible too, but you have to eat the fact that if you going for only premiums badbeats are on the look and with option 2 you the one who are the badbeater in most times and if option 2 fails you need to go to option 1 to try to gain as much money as possible after you blow up your nice stack. One thing is sure. Standard ABC poker does not aply for lowstakes turbo tournements and trust me. I play for a couple of years now and speak out of experience. Dont play them too much, cause its not good for your poker, but I do believe it makes you a better player, cause you need to wide up your range and get a lot more tough decisions to make in shorter time. So remember. Win a turbo low stakes tournement means you need to take more risks then you wanna do normal and challance your luck. If you dont turbo tournements are gonna be a frustraded thing to do.
Goodluck!!
I'm sorry to say,but your reasoning makes no sense. You say people should play loose at the beginning and tight in the stage where it matters to steal? That's something no good pokerbook will tell you (rightfully). You say @ 30K "you don't want to waste your chips". Why would you want to waste them in the early stage where it doesn't even matter yet to have a bigger stack and to steal? The middle phase is the phase where stealing against tight nits will get you many chips,"playing ABC poker and wait for good hands" won't get you deep unless you get dealt premium hands frequently,but unfortunately that's something that doesn't happen often.
And again about the early stage..like I said before,if you double up in the early stage from 3K to 6K or something,what kind of advantage will this give you? The only affect if you play loose is that you can bust very early,but a double up won't give you a significant advantage,and that's the reason why you play tight at the beginning. You don't want to damage your stack early and play looser when your stack is down to 15-20BB,since it'll be 1st: easier to double up on other players and 2nd: a double up will be more affective compared to blinds.
Sorry if this comes off rude,but your strategy won't get you anywhere in most tourneys (unless your stats say otherwise,but I dont think so if you use your mentioned strategy).
Well, I also think that InFamiz's strategy is opposite of what you should play in MMTs ;o Maybe you'll win in short peroid of time, but in longrun... I don't think so. Of course there are some pros who say that it's important to win as many chips as fast as possible, but I think it couldn't be better said than: "you can't win tournament in early stages, you can only lose it". Your winnings are determined by your equity and you can't have good equity when you limp ATs in early stages, because I think it's what you would recommend here. Maybe you could go deep in some donkments with such strategy but I would like to see some graph of your EV from those tournaments if you're using PT or HEM
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Hi Loosekiddie. I suggest you play a few of the freerolls on FTP that BRM sponsor, you get the password 10 mins before the tourney begins. These obviously don't have the payout your looking for but as I have learnt recently, by playing long and being tight in the early stages has helped me improve my game overall.
This will also help you improve your concentration and make your patience better.
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Well, no rudeness at all Im not really good in these things and maybe shouldnt had post it without working it out. I have to say you guy's are absolutely right...couldnt say it better...if it comes to regular and deepstack MTT's, but again this aply's on turbo tournements where blind levels increase every 3 or 5 minutes, so basicly you dont have an early stage, because it goes 3 times as fast and after a view hands you all ready shortstack or have less than 20 blinds. Dont think if you join a 45 or 180 turbo you find nits, maybe some big GRD with 5000 runners ok. Means you have to gamble to beat time and increasing blind levels till you at a point you dont. That what im trying to say. In a turbo going from 3k to 6k means a lot otherwise you will come fast in situation where you have to coin flip your premiums wich I absolutely dont like, so I try to stay ahead of that with loose agressive play. Dont think if you in those donkeyments full of Tom Dwans wannabe's you can create fold equity. I would count on that to much. But have to say in the first place if you a starter you should avoid turbo's, cause its not good for your poker as I said before, but if you do. Dont think the standard MTT strategy works. I do think loosekiddie is a bit contradictory here. Why ask in the first place if you know how to tell me the right answers. And you say win a donkment, well arent we talking about donkments in the first place?? Lowstake MTT's? Well if you really wanna learn good solid poker dont play turbo's if you do beware you play more a gambling game than a card game and you need to go with the flow and outsmart them. Otherwise you will never win a turbo. Take my word on that!
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Very interesting discussion. I think I have to try both strategies by myself too see what works best or what is the better style for my play. Thanks for sharing all your experiences with us.
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Posted by InFamiz: Well, no rudeness at all Im not really good in these things and maybe shouldnt had post it without working it out. I have to say you guy's are absolutely right...couldnt say it better...if it comes to regular and deepstack MTT's, but again this aply's on turbo tournements where blind levels increase every 3 or 5 minutes, so basicly you dont have an early stage, because it goes 3 times as fast and after a view hands you all ready shortstack or have less than 20 blinds. Dont think if you join a 45 or 180 turbo you find nits, maybe some big GRD with 5000 runners ok. Means you have to gamble to beat time and increasing blind levels till you at a point you dont. That what im trying to say. In a turbo going from 3k to 6k means a lot otherwise you will come fast in situation where you have to coin flip your premiums wich I absolutely dont like, so I try to stay ahead of that with loose agressive play. Dont think if you in those donkeyments full of Tom Dwans wannabe's you can create fold equity. I would count on that to much. But have to say in the first place if you a starter you should avoid turbo's, cause its not good for your poker as I said before, but if you do. Dont think the standard MTT strategy works. I do think loosekiddie is a bit contradictory here. Why ask in the first place if you know how to tell me the right answers. And you say win a donkment, well arent we talking about donkments in the first place?? Lowstake MTT's? Well if you really wanna learn good solid poker dont play turbo's if you do beware you play more a gambling game than a card game and you need to go with the flow and outsmart them. Otherwise you will never win a turbo. Take my word on that!
Don't agree with most of that. Turbos basicly play the same way a regular MTT works. You play the blinds in relation to your stack,not the number of people/time you played. You can't "stay ahead" of blinds going up in turbos. Just watch some turbo MTTs on pokerstars,you will hardly see anyone with 15BB or more in the later stage. Turbos do play different in the later stage,because they will require alot of stealing and pushing preflop,but that applies to regular tournaments as well when you get in the situation of being shortstack,so overall it doesn't play different,you just get to the stealing phase faster than in a regular. Oh and lowstake MTTs are by now not really donkaments at all anymore. Sure you'll find some more donks who are making crazy stupid plays,but you'll find them up to the $20's easily. Generally the level of the players,even on micros,increased alot.
Here's the lesson for a micro MTT's...then u're the chipleader in an ITM u should always push AA...i overbet pre flop and got called by AKs...K9S rainbow flop and he called my push...runner-runner fllush and i lost all my leadership.... =(
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That would've happened in a higher buy in MTT too with this structure,it's just unlucky,but standard play by both of you (well actually,AKs wouldve went all in preflop,but it wouldnt have changed the result )
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My advice to you is to play only very good hands like AA, KK, QQ, AKs allin preflop. Few years ago that was also my problem. Why i tell you to play this cards all in preflop, bacause perhaps you have KK, and the flops came with one ace, your opponent put all in, and you will not know what to do. Am i right? So play allin preflop with very good hands and you will often win. After 100000 hands, and many hours online, you can adjust your game in the MTT tournament.
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Posted by Dejan0001: My advice to you is to play only very good hands like AA, KK, QQ, AKs allin preflop. Few years ago that was also my problem. Why i tell you to play this cards all in preflop, bacause perhaps you have KK, and the flops came with one ace, your opponent put all in, and you will not know what to do. Am i right? So play allin preflop with very good hands and you will often win. After 100000 hands, and many hours online, you can adjust your game in the MTT tournament.
I dont agree with this.
1st: you have to adjust your play by stage of the tournament,stack,and blind levels. You cant just say that with these hands it's the perfect play no matter what stage etc.
2nd: if you put these hands all in preflop with a decent stack you will lose ALOT of value longterm. Usually only hands that are equal to that range will call you,other hands will fold preflop obv,so this play will lose you alot of value on the long run.
3rd: You can very well know what to do when you have KK/QQ and an A shows up on the flop. First,you should do a continuation bet obv. If your opponent hit nothing,he will probably fold in the later stage. If he raises,you're most likely beat unless he did some moves like that on the flop with worse before. If he calls,then you will have to reevaluate according to history/stats of this opponent and decide if you want to fire a 2nd barrel.
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Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Posted by Dejan0001: My advice to you is to play only very good hands like AA, KK, QQ, AKs allin preflop. Few years ago that was also my problem. Why i tell you to play this cards all in preflop, bacause perhaps you have KK, and the flops came with one ace, your opponent put all in, and you will not know what to do. Am i right? So play allin preflop with very good hands and you will often win. After 100000 hands, and many hours online, you can adjust your game in the MTT tournament.
I dont agree with this.
1st: you have to adjust your play by stage of the tournament,stack,and blind levels. You cant just say that with these hands it's the perfect play no matter what stage etc.
2nd: if you put these hands all in preflop with a decent stack you will lose ALOT of value longterm. Usually only hands that are equal to that range will call you,other hands will fold preflop obv,so this play will lose you alot of value on the long run.
3rd: You can very well know what to do when you have KK/QQ and an A shows up on the flop. First,you should do a continuation bet obv. If your opponent hit nothing,he will probably fold in the later stage. If he raises,you're most likely beat unless he did some moves like that on the flop with worse before. If he calls,then you will have to reevaluate according to history/stats of this opponent and decide if you want to fire a 2nd barrel.
You have right, but for one non educated poker player this is much to high. A already playing poker at lest 4 years and i have some experience with online poker tournament. Please believe me he will not know what to do in many, many situations, specially in this low buy-in tournaments.
I think at this level I'll need to play ABC 
, so I'd like to know how to play them when I'll have bankroll for them 
)
