The other week I sat with a friend and within an hour of playing I was able to tell him what cards were going to hit on the river.
AK v KQ. Flop 10 A K. Oh you just know what the river card was going to be.....
AA v QQ Flop 10 A K Guess what the river card was.....
KK v 10 10. Flop 7 8 9 .. Go on.. see if you can guess......
Its almost never ending, and its not just me that suffers it, I've seen it time after time in games I've played in. I've even had some go in my favour, so its not a case of me saying PS is picking on me alone, its saying that there is definitely not something right about it.
The thing is it can't be proven. No one knows whether it is fiddled or not. The supposed "independant" auditors are paid by the company themselves, so its not like they are completely unbiased, and lets face it, given whats going on over in the states, and the way the US government is accusing PS of fraud, money laundering, corruption and basically everything apart from shooting Phil Hellmuth dog, then can you really in all honesty say that a poker site with that many levels of accusations aimed at it by a government isn't averse to twisting things about a bit to liven up the game.
On PS the game is geared for action. It's so blatant that its unreal. I play every week, 2-3 nights a week in a live game. I've seen AA v KK maybe 10 times in the last 5 years. One night on Pokerstars and you'll see it almost every game. There is no way on gods earth you get AA v KK as frequently in live games as you do on Pokerstars.
Its not saying PS is picking on one individual, its saying PS twists the cards to make the game more exciting and action packed. Just go and look. Every game you will see bad beats after bad beats, and comments such as "this is BS" and in many cases it just that. Complete BS.
If anyone needs to lose the ego, its you.. Some of us are clever enough to believe that if casinos can doctor roullette tables, and dice, and fruit machine companies can make machines where they can dictate the payout levels, then a poker site can very easily make the game as lively as they want it..
Joined: Dec '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 19
Well i think 24hr poker is very bad for it, along with ps i think those 2 are definately the worst, as for freerolls the blind level times are far too short on 24hr poker, you get everyone on the table playing like mad men ( or women lol, trying to build there stacks as quickly and reckless as they can because if you havent built a reasonable stack within 20 mins half an hr u just get blinded out, im not dissing the freerolls in general on 24hr i think there very good and offer a good variance of games but they definateley arnt for the faint hearted lol, no offence but i definately think they are more suited to the eastern european aggressive style of play, to which the majority of players on 24hr are, just my opinion, gl too all.
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 979
um want me to show you all my hand historys of AA vs KK and show you how many times AA wins? it wins roughly 7/8 times, and its suppose to. maybe if you played more hands youd realize its just variance, your probably on a cooler
Joined: Apr '09
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Posted by fcumred: Jess. thats so patronising its untrue.
its saying that there is definitely not something right about it.
Yeh OK. Sure. Maybe you should quit too.
------------ same old action flop BS everyone else is saying. The thing is - not only, like everyone else, are you NOT providing ANY empirical data/measurement to support your findings.. But how come I NEVER notice any of this BS you rigtards always crap on about ??
Thats what really strikes me, I'm a fucking life-time degen - I've spent soooo many fucking hours playing online poker it just aint funny. Yet I have honestly NEVER noticed any of this crap that any of you rigtards babble on about. So not only do you have NO empirical data/proof - but even your anecdotal evidence doesn't add up for me. Because I've played on ALL the major rooms and most of the minor ones that are generally known. And I just don't see it. I mean, sure - sometimes I have some sick nights - where everything is a fucking 2-outter on the river and I run about 300% below EV for the day/week - but sometimes the opposite happens - but MOST of the time - it's just somewhere around EV.
Seriously - I play so many hands of online poker - for over 2 years now I've played probably over 3hrs a day on average of online poker and generally playing 3-6 tables at a time..You would think, if there was ANYTHING at all to any of the crap you rigtards babble about, you would THINK I would have surely noticed it by now. And I am a smart guy, really smart actually and believe me, I ain't naive either (contary to what the rigtards always tell me).
Now I'll say this once - I am NOT saying I *know* 100% for sure its not rigged, of course I don't. But so far, through my own experience and listening **edited out** babble on at me, I am yet to come across anything to convince me it is rigged.
@fcumred i totally agree that the program which they use is twisting things about a bit to liven up the game
when i play omaha high and low there there is a action flop for every1, no matter what cards your holding you have a piece, they have this program to do this so they generate more rake in them for there profit and also how many times runner runners win at nl holdem no high pairs seem to win, and the river was always the card to fook your winning hand up it was like it was leading you on all the way for action flops i got to point when playing there to change the way i played, but i didnt, i just left after 3 months cause the way i played worked for me at ipoker and full tilt and other sites where i was winning player so i just left that site, now playing at ipoker and full tilt im back now a winning player, am not saying all this cause i lost at pokerstars, its just why should i change the way i play poker cause of the stupid system they use at pokerstars
the amount of times ive seen thread in different forum about the system what pokerstars use have singled this out not every1 can be wrong about this, am not saying it rigged for a single person but for every1, you have to beat the program which they use then beat the player to be a winning player there if you get what i mean
daniel negreanu is there top pro but never seem to play there??? i have my own thought on this also he is a losing player there not bad to say he one of the best in the game all time prize money just cause your good at live poker doesnt mean your gonna be at online poker, there are plenty of pro who are rubbish at online poker and its not cause they carnt play is it,
look at durrrr one the best online player who can the system but is poor at live poker doyle brunson ,jamie gold, , phil helmoth mike the mouth etc arnt really winning players at online and dont or harldy play on line but are all winning player in live poker,,,,,,
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
I wish I were allowed to post poker related links. Let me just say, if you're genuinely interested - then google it. I've already found a couple pages that analyse over 1million hands to check how close actual outcomes are to expected outcomes.
One site done for PS & PP and both were under 1 standard deviation over a million hands..
This is what is known as empirical data and this is why I will continue to laugh at YOU. All day long.
Joined: Dec '09
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 2087
i agree jess all i can say is LOL to another rigtard thread throwing out cliams but never any hands to back it up. Why cant some people just admit they have been playing crap is it really that hard. Maybe you just run pretty s**t on some sites to this can happen, there is people up million on some sites and down lots on others.
lol Dozn i knew you had been a closet rigtard lol how does it feel to come out are you free
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
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Posted by Flippedchips: Why cant some people just admit they have been playing crap is it really that hard. Maybe you just run pretty s**t on some sites to this can happen
THIS
And the best part is - by using one of the hand trackers that are available online you can even go so far as to see if you're losing because A) You're bad B) The rake is beating your otherwise marginal wining / break even play C) You run bad
All these factors can be seen simply by looking at an EV line across your actual results. To see if you fall on it, above it, or below it.
Posted by Flippedchips: i agree jess all i can say is LOL to another rigtard thread throwing out cliams but never any hands to back it up. Why cant some people just admit they have been playing crap is it really that hard. Maybe you just run pretty s**t on some sites to this can happen, there is people up million on some sites and down lots on others.
lol Dozn i knew you had been a closet rigtard lol how does it feel to come out are you free
lol am just going with the flow i knew this thread who turn in to a rigged thread and thought i throw in fuel and then jess could light it up to get it started
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
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Posts: 6483
Posted by dozn01: so in other words to get better over variance and to win play fooking 1 million hands online to beat that system
it took doyle brunson 20 years to play that many hands lmao
What the f**k are you on about ?
I never said anything like that. However - when you're talking about something as serious and contentious as the rigged poker debate - obviously the larger the sample size the better. This is why samples of over 1million hands are used - NOT and I repeat for you dozn01 so you don't misinterpret what I am saying again - NOT because you have to play over a million hands to iron out variance - but simply because it provides harder evidence.
------------
Posted by dozn01: lol am just going with the flow i knew this thread who turn in to a rigged thread and thought i throw in fuel and then jess could light it up to get it started
At least you admit you're just being a troll - I can appreciate that; fcumred is just embarrassing himself.
Joined: Dec '09
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted by fcumred: the way the US government is accusing PS of fraud, money laundering, corruption and basically everything apart from shooting Phil Hellmuth dog
the reason for this stuff was because online poker was illegal in the usa so this stuff had to be done and the players wanted it, if it was not that do you think every other country in the world would have banned it to? no they didnt because they are not doing anything against the law
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
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Posted by Flippedchips:
Posted by fcumred: the way the US government is accusing PS of fraud, money laundering, corruption and basically everything apart from shooting Phil Hellmuth dog
the reason for this stuff was because online poker was illegal in the usa so this stuff had to be done and the players wanted it, if it was not that do you think every other country in the world would have banned it to? no they didnt because they are not doing anything against the law
This is so true. It blows my mind every time I see on any thread somebody drawing a link between this situation with the US DoJ and their rigged RNG theories. It's such a bizarre mental leap.
Not that I am nessacarily condoning the way they conducted business - I guess it was fairly obvious what would eventually happen - back in 2006 Party Poker made a smart move and they must be so happy about that now, watching PS/FTP over the years steal all that USA money from them and then finally this. And the world of s**t FTP is in now, because they credited USA accounts for so long even though they were unable to actually debit the player accounts, creating something like $60M in deficiets which now has them surely in a hole.
So yes, bunch of stupid moves by PS and particularly FTP management (and UB/AP LOLs) - but it in no way supports rigtard theories at all.
As Doz noticed in my post, I havent actually said Pokerstars rigs the hands so that one individual is being singled out. What I said is the game is set so that the flops provide action. Let me provide you with TWO examples, both taken within 2 minutes of each other.
In BOTH cases I was able to predict what was coming.
In BOTH cases I was well ahead when all the chips went in. In fact in the first instance I actually him all in pre flop. He picked up the set on the flop. I hit the straight on the turn, and lo and behold he hits the full house on the river.
Now if thats not an action flop for 77 v 88 then please Jess, tell me what is ??
Look at the second hand. He miraculously hits the 6.
As I say these two hands happened within minutes of each other. If I had the time I'd provide you hundreds ( and I mean hundreds ) of similar examples. Idiots chasing 4 outs and guess what.. they hit...
My point was, if a site will doctor hands to provide action then what else are they able to do ?
Amazingly you use AP/UB as two examples of bad management. The first two sites to have been found allowing a system where cheating was possible. Both management companies claimed it was impossible to cheat. Both claimed their so called independant scrutineers had monitored the hands and found nothing wrong. If it wasn't the dogmatic actions of someone on 2+2 they would still be claiming its impossible to cheat the system.
And guess what.. who was it gave out the cheating software ? Staff from the very companies who you say wouldn't risk it.
I am under no illusions. Online poker has the potential to be rigged. Whether it is or not is unprovable. You have no more evidence to say it isn't than I have to say it is. But rest assured of one thing, if it is, Pokerstars sure as hell won't be the ones telling us all about it.... They will deny it till the cow jumps over the moon.
You call people who claim it could be rigged retards.. No, they are the realists. The retards are those that refuse point blank to accept that its perfectly possible for pokersites to cheat and defend it mercilessly. In fact, on the balance of probability, given there have been cheats in poker since the game was first invented, its far more likely they do doctor the games. Anyone who claims its not possible to have cheating in gambling is a complete loon....
Joined: Jan '11
Location: Netherlands
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When i play the 2 cent hyper turbo it is most times mine last 2 cents but dont play them very seriously because most time it comes to luck in the end of the game
the amount of times ive seen thread in different forum about the system what pokerstars use have singled this out not every1 can be wrong about this, am not saying it rigged for a single person but for every1, you have to beat the program which they use then beat the player to be a winning player there if you get what i mean
At least someone has the sense to see what is so glaringly obvious.
How many times have you sat there with say 2 pair and theres only one possible hand that can beat you. I've seen it hundreds of times. I've won with one outers, i've lost against one outers. Its not saying PS hates me and deliberately chooses that I should lose. Its saying that the cards are dealt in such a manner that if I go all in there is someone else who has cards that he will also go all in with.
The classic is AA v AK. You can bet your bottom dollar that AA will raise, AK will call and an Ace will land on the flop. Yes it happens live, but never as frequently as it does on sites like PS. What makes me laugh is people like Jess saying "well look at one million hands and see how often suckouts happen"
Those hands tell you who won the hand, what they don't tell you is what they were up against and how the cards went in the middle. Sure AA might beat 77 at the showdown, but when 77 hits a set and the river is an ace after the 7s have shoved after the flop then the result may be the one you'd expect between AA v 77 but how AA won most certainly isn't how you would see it live.
I've won countless hands that I've had no right to win, hitting miracle cards. I've also lost countless hands to miracle cards too. I've seen players win and lose hands in the most obscure ways, and never do I see anything like it in live games, or at least not to the same extent.
One thing I would say is I've played poker for 24 years. I've never ONCE had a royal flush in live games, and I think I've seen about 2 being dealt. Online I've had over 20 Royal flushes and seen more than I can care to imagine. Am I just the luckiest online poker player going or perhaps the frequency difference is because the poker sites set it up so I get them...
the program which pokerstars have than any other site generate them more rake then the rest, they always have action flops and yes i totally agree with the AA vs KK there, its all about how much money they can earn from a pot imo
also why the heck should i change the way i play just to fit in at pokerstars stupid program
Jovica is right... If you think about what you're saying; YOU don;'t give out bad beats, but you lost 59/60 games because of a "bad beat river". Obviously not EVERYONE can be losing this much, otherwise nobody would actually be winning the games. Basically what you are suggesting is that PS is singling you out to lose. That makes so little sense it is not funny. IMHO - lose the ego and practise your game, obviously you are no where near as good as you think you are.
------------ Also, FWIW- I used to play live pub poker before playing online - I kid you not - there would be people swearing at the "fucking river card" every five minutes.
------------ It's just the game dude and to be honest, you probably ain't cut-out for it.
Dude, I know I'm not a great player, I said it before. I love girls, I love Party, and I work so I could never be a great poker player as I don't have and do not want to waste my time like that. Am I cut-out for professional poker? No I'm not and I don't want to. i just want to play for fun and if I could get some extra bucks on it great.
I created this post as a joke to pokerstars as many people complains about them rivers. Of course I don't bealive they have something against me.
I do know the basics of poker, and I do know why I loose. My problem is that sometimes I can't control myself
Posted by denbrokkes: When i play the 2 cent hyper turbo it is most times mine last 2 cents but dont play them very seriously because most time it comes to luck in the end of the game
all i can say is LOL to another rigtard thread throwing out cliams but never any hands to back it up. Why cant some people just admit they have been playing crap is it really that hard. Maybe you just run pretty s**t on some sites to this can happen, there is people up million on some sites and down lots on others.
