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Would you call me a donk for playing this hand?  +1   
I was bigstack at the button with 3190 chips at a mostly loose table and blinds were 20/40. My holecards were 8d 5d. Nothing to get rich with, but because there were so many limpers in front of me I decided to buy a cheap look at the flop and so I just called 40... now imagine this ...

ZaFRiLLa posts small blind (20)
mirari88 posts big blind (40)
Dealing Cards

---> Dealing [8 d][5 d] to Doberhain (BUTTON)
---> hoopy1967 calls 40

Kmmoose folds
mogsley did not respond in time and is folded
mogsley folds
therock75 calls 40
jkkok folds
WolfMessing calls 40
Doberhain calls 40
ZaFRiLLa calls 40
mirari88 checks

--> Pot sizes: 240
--> Dealing Flop [4 d][9 d][K d] (FLOPPED A FLUSH HERE)

ZaFRiLLa checks
mirari88 checks
hoopy1967 checks
therock75 checks
WolfMessing checks

--> Doberhain bets 320

ZaFRiLLa folds
mirari88 folds

--> hoopy1967 raises to 1,420 (all-in)

therock75 folds
WolfMessing folds

--> Doberhain calls 1,420
--> Pot sizes: 3,080
--> Doberhain shows [8 d][5 d]
--> hoopy1967 shows [4 c][4 h]
--> Dealing Turn [6 h]
--> Pot sizes: 3,080
--> Dealing River [Q d]
--> Pot sizes: 3,080
--> hoopy1967 has Three of a Kind: 4s
--> Doberhain has Flush, King high
--> Doberhain wins 3,080 with: Flush, King high

---------

When the flop was checked to me I overbet the pot with 2 bb to protect my hand against a possible draw with a higher diamond or a straight draw. I did not expect someone would dare to call or even reraise such a bet on this flop! Smile

Everyone plays his own chips I use to say. So I got lucky villain didn´t make a Fullhouse. After he left the table he jumped in squares I guess. For your enjoyment a little episode out of the following:

hoopy1967: u r a fkin muppet m8
hoopy1967: u need to go learn poker
hoopy1967: ya kin tool
Doberhain: remember that lol
Doberhain laughs out loud.
hoopy1967: 85 nothing showing for u and u call an all in bet ya plik
hoopy1967: remember wat?
Doberhain: need any books? how about knigge?
hoopy1967: ur a fkin plik
hoopy1967: u raise with 8 5 go learn to play poker
Doberhain acknowledges WolfMessing had a nice hand.
hoopy1967: come qwith me head to head il rip u apart ya tool
...
hoopy1967: i take it thats a no ya chicken faced fkr
Doberhain does his best dancing ever.
Doberhain: cool speach bro

Blink

     
   0   
I would say you played it just fine the thing to watch is someone does not have bigger flush or makes one. but in a freebe and early in torny and early at that I would probably of played it very similar if not exactly same.
But I am not the expert here just my opinion

     
   0   
Er..you played it perfectly, BTN pre flop suited connectors multi way limp. flopped the flush, bet big to push out better diamonds ( although probs wouldnt have worked at micros ) his shove is unlikely to be a better flush more a draw or trips/2 pair type hand. That dudes comments afterwards dont even make any sense....you didnt raise with 85...you raised with a flush... hes a tard, wp, gg. stack off against these donks on the regular and you will be laughing.

     
   0   
Yeah way to smack down yet another dummy on the tables (careful though don't hit them too hard. Need them to keep donating to us at the tables). But yeah I agree, especially given that it was early in a tournament, pretty unlikely the other guy had a better flush so you did marvelous and got paid for it. Congrats.

     
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You won didn't you? the other guy is a jerk, so does it really matter ?

Well, if it does matter, imho I think you've played well, but I'm a poor opinion

     
   0   
Would probably fold preflop regardless of the limpers before you,suited 2-gapers are really not really much but trash...
Other than that you played it fine Thumbs Up

     
   0   
Posted by TheFarSeer:
You won didn't you?


I went third at the end. Could´nt hold the chiplead when it got to the last 3.

--------------

I wouldn´t play those cards out of every position. If I am honest very rarely. It was just this table. All were limping, lurking for a possible hit at the flop, I was CL and doublestacked. So I decided to risk one blind and went lucky Smile

     
   0   
i think u played played it good. i woulda been a bit more careful knowing if another Diamond comes i only have the 8 Diamond ...i kinda agree with BeMyATMplz about the 2gapers, they ussually just get you into trouble but my favorite hands/luckiest hands have always been 69 and j9 so cant say s**t lol..i say go with your gut and good things will come

     
   0   
Hope we can analyze it a bit to wager if I was right to call his All In and someone could point out where I am wrong, if so. Maybe good to get rid of some leaks. That´s the way I see it:

Given the case Villain sets Hero on a made Flush and holds the Nutflush draw with Ad for himself. The board wasn´t paired for a possible Fullhouse and he wouldn´t hold the right cards to get Quads or a Royal Flush, so he could count on 7 remaining outs to complete a winning hand. Giving him a losing probability of 45/7 or 6.7/1, around 15.6 % chance to win and 84.4 % chance to lose = odds of around 5.4/1.Which means he should call max. 104 chips for the pot of 560 chips. He raises with his full stack (All In) and overbets dramatically. What Hero needs now, to do a profitable call, are pot odds of better than 0.82/1, because the outs of Villain are his deads.Which means he should invest max. additional 1427 chips into the pot of 1980. But as he only has to bring another 1100 chips to call the All In, it was a right decision and you wouldn´t call me a donk therefor -

Or not? Confused

I did this thoughts afterwards late at night and I am sure there are errors en masse, but I really would appreciate if a regular would do this math for me again and point out where I was wrong or what was forgotten to consider.(If we ever meet at a life poker I will pay the drinks then)

How about the opportunity to think about possible diamonds hidden in the folded holecards of the limpers - should we substract them partially? And how to calculate that, if Villain could make Quads or Royal Flush?

Edited by Doberhain (05 July 2011 @ 04:03 GMT)


     
   0   
Played it perfectly man - love it the whole way through and flop. Over-bet to protect here on the flop is very important, many people slow play the small flushes here and end up with tricky river spots, which is exactly what *could* of happened to you with the Qd. Lucky your flop play meant no silly decisions for you on the river.

Very WP - and you'll always get these idiots like villain here who can't play for s**t calling you a muppet etc.

------------
Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Would probably fold preflop regardless of the limpers before you,suited 2-gapers are really not really much but trash...
Other than that you played it fine Thumbs Up


no offence, but folding that spot pre would have been (objectively) very poor play.

------------
Posted by Doberhain:
Hope we can analyze it a bit to wager if I was right to call his All In


He is almost NEVER playing the made nut flush like this and rarely has a better flush. Most often he is making this play with - 2 pair, nut draw and trips - all of which you're well ahead of. Snap call every time.

Edited by jessthehuman (05 July 2011 @ 04:17 GMT)


     
   0   
Posted by jessthehuman:
and you'll always get these idiots like villain here who can't play for s**t calling you a muppet etc.


Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile Thanks for the Baseball Bat, appreciate it Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile

Normally I should take a little break now and rest in glory, but since there´s a small portion of life left besides poker reality, I will take a shower instead and get things rolling, hehe.

     
   0   
Donk on donk violence. Smile
Aggro play at the flop, but both players have quite strong hands. And yes, playing this hand in this situation is standard.

     
   0   
Posted by shokaku:
Aggro play at the flop, but both players have quite strong hands. And yes, playing this hand in this situation is standard.


Yeah well - both players needed to protect their hands here obviously.. I can't really fault either play in regards to how it was played on the fault - IMO both of their lines were fine.. However - I can certainly fault the villains comments later - clearer indicated a very poor/limited understanding of the game.

     
   0   
Wow an actual poker discussion Worship

     
   0   
Indeed a really nice poker discussion.
Very helpful to me, because I still have to learn very much about this nice game.
So another thing I learned is to play even suited two gappers on the button if there are some limpers in hand.

     
   0   
Posted by jessthehuman:
IMO both of their lines were fine.


Yes, he hit the set and wanted to get me out of the hand. And he had additional outs to hit quads or a Fullhouse. That´s not a bad play. I guess he also put me on a flushdraw, what should be very obviously with that flop.That would explain why he went All In.

In the calculation example above, I take it for given that he holds the Nutflush draw, because I put him on this hand when he went All In. It could have been a possible killer for my "baby flush" and I wanted to show up whether it was ok for me to call him or not.

     
   0   
Just realised from the chat transcript this was PKR ... Don't recognise any of those names; I know pretty much all the PKR MTT regs...This just a freeroll or something ?

     
   0   
First, for those saying fold pre, he could have raised pre.
The only thing I don't like is his AI and attitude.
It is hard to get away from a set, but trapping yourself is silly, he played it as if no one could possably flop flush(or better set) and failed to respect your bet. This early in a tourn you must leave yourself a get out clause.

     
   0   
Posted by B1gfoot:
First, for those saying fold pre, he could have raised pre.
The only thing I don't like is his AI and attitude.
It is hard to get away from a set, but trapping yourself is silly, he played it as if no one could possably flop flush(or better set) and failed to respect your bet. This early in a tourn you must leave yourself a get out clause.


I don't mind it - it is only a short stack tourney - 1500 starting stacks - and I know on PKR; the games that start with 1500 are pretty quick blind, normally 8-10m and PKR is a bit slower (hands per hour) than most rooms, so its not long before you're shove/fold in these games. And pretty much the only reasonable moves here are fold/allin - he can't really slow play - because unless the turn pairs the board, he is going to end up with an even tougher decision to make and going by the flop action - he can be pretty sure that by the river all the chips are going in..

I think villain here has decent equity vs possible hands - made flush he still has outs and he is ahead of the other two likely hands - nut draw & 2 pair. He is obv completely dominated by over-set - but if you bust from an MTT set vs set - then thats just a cooler IMO,

If it were a deeper stack game, on lev2 blinds - I would say allin here is terrible - but for these stacks - I don't mind it - take a chance to double up or busto - not so bad.

I'm not saying it was definitely the best play, but it wasn't bad either.

I agree dob could have raised from the button here, folded out some hands for some dead money - but then if AA/KK had limped from UTG/etc with the intention of re-popping a late pos raise, then he'd be in trouble..

     
   +1   
Why is folding pre poor play?
So,you'd limp with 52s here as well?
Because the difference in that spot between 85s and 52s is very very marginal (he needs to flop 2 pair or better to really continue the hand in either way).
Draws do also play not really easily with those kind of hands.
It will just take a good portion off his stack in most cases is he flops a draw and continues to pay postflop.

That's just my style of play though,I like to get blinded down to 25-30 BB and play premiums or good drawing hands (87s+,maybe T8s+),oppinions differ ofc. as usual and I also understand your way of thinking,I just wouldn't really even want to get in that spot in here risking to flop a draw (since that's the reason why we'd even play this hand IMO) and risk to damage our safe stack here...

     
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