Joined: Jun '11
Location: United Kingdom
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there was a thread here before asking this very question and heres MY answer,your a bunch of DONKEYDONKS that push normal players out of tourneys with your Russian calls,you all play any hands that a good player would fold in an instance,and i say this with a question to anyone else?Do you know 1 good Russian player????feck all Russians and i hope you get banned from playing poker you feckwits.....good luck all the non Russian Mobsters....
Joined: Dec '09
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 42 (M)
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lol ive been where you are but there is lots of good russian players, i went through a russian thing a while ago as they kept donking me out of stuff but i get it more from other places now. The fact is there is s**t and good players everywhere
Posted by Flippedchips: lol ive been where you are but there is lots of good russian players, i went through a russian thing a while ago as they kept donking me out of stuff but i get it more from other places now. The fact is there is s**t and good players everywhere
Yeah exactly... Actually russians are usually good in maths, they always had good scientists and mathematicians ^^
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Canada
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Posts: 3207
i answerd this question in another thread long ago..its not y ppl think they hate russians its cause there population in the online poker world defeats the rest by a landslide...
anyone remember schmoyster? he is russian and hasnt been back on this site for 4-5 months because ppl cant get anound the fact that russia is huge and think that cause they see 3-4 russians on one table u target all of them to be donks. who cares if there donks or not? if u were a good player u would be able to get over the sterio types u come up with and beat them at the table.
------------ here is my reply to the other thread if it helps u out at all.....................
weve all had encounters with aggressive players...dont think its fair to categorize players to the country were they live....come find arsenej1 at a table somtime and ull see aggressive .....im extreme agressor sometimes and tight passive other times....depends on the mood and other players around me. if your playing freeroles/1-2$ buyin game play will be differnt then 10-100$ games...someimes that is ive played 50$ games and swore i was in a 10$ freerole with 10000 players
------------
Posted by mandy1966: LIKE THE RUSSIANS FECKIN DONKEY PLAYERS
if u noticed but this guys russian....there a big country its bound to happen seeing alot of aggressive russians....actually u probably dont even see many its just your all so hooked on the idea that there donks that u cant get away from it! ive played with many great russian players over the years. no ones gonna come on here saying players from ethiopia are donks because u dont see many from that country playing but if u ran into 2 in 1 day ur now gonna have an oppinion on the whole country...think yaz gotta look at the bigger picture
If we're going to play the blame game lets look at the poker rooms. How is it donks get away with all those donk calls and bets? They keep hittin and winnin so they'll keep playin that way until a deck goes cold. There are certain sites I won't play at for this very reason. It's the frequency of the suck outs and bad beats that get me going. So I realize in it's simplicity that I have a choice wheather or not I choose to play at these sites or not. I have my day when online supprot tries to get me to deposit...then I have my say...uaually...not a snowballs chance in hell.
Joined: Oct '09
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Let´s stop talking Bulls**t and be honest.
There are a LOT of Russian players the last few years. They "mostly" play an "overly" agressive game of Poker, to the point of ridiculous.
NOT only the freerolls, but I see them in all games up to about $11 buy-ins. Betting on all pocket holdings, overbetting the flop, raising EVERY turn to steal the blinds, bluffing on ANYTHING that falls on the flop, etc.
We´ve all seen it, we´ve all been victim to it. It turns poker into a ridiculous game of "BAD Bluffs" and "gambling".
Í´ve been busted out of so many games, SnG and Tournaments. just because the guy got lucky on the river after terrorising the table with ridiculous raises and agression to the point of stupidity. It just ruins Poker at all the micro and lower levels.
This is how it goes EVERY time: Bluffing/raising every hand until YOU get a hand. By then the lucky ones who remain have HUGE stacks. You trap him and pull him all-in, and he hits a ridiculous suckout on the turn or river.
The problem is that there are SO MANY of them, that one will always screw you up. When the Raising/bluffing idiot finally gets busted, the whole table is happy in the chat, and the game of Poker can get going again.
The main point: I always check the Sharkscope· of the player in question (Russian, HUGE stack, betting EVERY turn)...and what do I see? Losses ranging from a few $100 to $40.000+... Really !! And these people are playing $6 Deepstacks!
F****** ridiculous. Where do they get the cash?
@Arsene:
This time I don´t agree. You can sit there waiting for decent cards to call their bluff, and end up getting busted by a suckout. Has happened enough times to me. I always predict that these losers will not make the final table, and they don´t but they CAN cost you your whole Tournament on stupidity. The problem is that you have to risk your whole tourney on an idiot getting lucky, just to be able to play at a normal table.
I´m NOT saying Russians are stupid or anything even close to that. Their "frame of mind" is such that they think agression and Bluffing IS Poker, and that makes the whole thing a simple gamble in the end. THEN..the governments are right, and Poker is gambling.
Germans can be extremely agressive, but it is "intelligent" agression, and that I respect. The way these Russians play just makes me sick. It´s completely ridiculous.
And keep in mind: the increasing number of frustrated posts on the subject don´t lie, there is a problem there for regular players. At least at the micro ($10 or less) levels. You need to buy-in at $20+ to avoid that garbage.
Yes, I played a few Tournaments today, and the Russians ruined it for everyone at my table in all of them, until they got busted, or I got busted trying to get rid of them.
Showing a list of world population figures just proves my point. There are SO MANY of them !
BUT there are definitely good players in between the huge mess, but they don´t screw up everyones game, whatever it may be, at the lower levels. At the higher levels, they don´t have a chance, because all the other players are good and they don´t last long on those tables. On the lower levels where people like me try to make some final tables, they cost you everything, while only a small % can make it to the top and the final table. (usually NO Russians there!)
Just thought I should defend Callie, because these guys drive me nuts as well. And...every buy-in under $10 feels like a freeroll!
FINALLY: Just check their Sharkscope when you are playing with this kind of guy, it´s amazing how high their losses can get. Doesn´t make your winnings any higher, but it explains a lot.
Posted by callie28: there was a thread here before asking this very question and heres MY answer,your a bunch of DONKEYDONKS that push normal players out of tourneys with your Russian calls,you all play any hands that a good player would fold in an instance,and i say this with a question to anyone else?Do you know 1 good Russian player????feck all Russians and i hope you get banned from playing poker you feckwits.....good luck all the non Russian Mobsters....
I found many donks playing at microlimits and I can say that they are equally spreaded in every country's origin: Americans, Canadians, Russians, Germans, Italians etc. I don't think that in Russia there are more donks than in other countries, and there are also some pros with nice results as Demidov, Losev. Maybe in some poker rooms there is a bigger density of Russian donks? Anyway with one thing I agree, if they collude and they collude or they speak in Russian where only English chat is allowed, they should be banned immediately!
Joined: Feb '11
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lol about rants about bad players... Do you seriously want to play in fields infested with good players that play perfect? People like those "evil russians" that play ridiculously bad are the ones that make the better players the money in the long run. Without players like them,poker would be dead by now. Whoever has a problem with losing players that make dumb moves has no idea about how to make profit in poker works and where it comes from. The bad players will only add you equity,in the LONG RUN though. Yes,it's actually true,poker is a game of the LONG RUN,not a few hands,you might not believe it,but its true.
However,since there is rarely a 0% chance in poker,you will lose from time to time. Obv it's gonna tilt you if you lose to the dumbest idiot around,it's humans nature that you don't just look over that,but you should always think in terms of "thanks for making me money" instead of "OMFG THIS FUCKING GUY SUCKED ME OUT WUAAAHHH"
And I've seen someone saying "he gets annoyed when he faces them in freerolls" or something similar. I mean wtf? If you wanna play realmoney poker,grow some balls,deposit and play on a skill level that you desire. I'd see no reason to play serious in a freeroll either (except for VIP freerolls that actually have a decent prizepool to play for of course).
Saying they always get lucky is kinda stupid as well. But the true fact is,to win a tournament you will have to get through loads of tough spots and close situations. Lets say you get into 5 all ins,where your chance of winning is 70/30 in your fsvour. You will win most of these ,however,obviously you will rarely win all of them as well. And then people think they're running bad,because they "lost with the best hand" while mathematicly they would have been eliminated before that situation already.
So yeah,to sum up,be happy that these russian donks (or donks from whatever nation) are even there. They keep the games alive.
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
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Posted by BeMyATMplz: lol about rants about bad players... Do you seriously want to play in fields infested with good players that play perfect? People like those "evil russians" that play ridiculously bad are the ones that make the better players the money in the long run. Without players like them,poker would be dead by now. Whoever has a problem with losing players that make dumb moves has no idea about how to make profit in poker works and where it comes from. The bad players will only add you equity,in the LONG RUN though. Yes,it's actually true,poker is a game of the LONG RUN,not a few hands,you might not believe it,but its true.
However,since there is rarely a 0% chance in poker,you will lose from time to time. Obv it's gonna tilt you if you lose to the dumbest idiot around,it's humans nature that you don't just look over that,but you should always think in terms of "thanks for making me money" instead of "OMFG THIS FUCKING GUY SUCKED ME OUT WUAAAHHH"
And I've seen someone saying "he gets annoyed when he faces them in freerolls" or something similar. I mean wtf? If you wanna play realmoney poker,grow some balls,deposit and play on a skill level that you desire. I'd see no reason to play serious in a freeroll either (except for VIP freerolls that actually have a decent prizepool to play for of course).
Saying they always get lucky is kinda stupid as well. But the true fact is,to win a tournament you will have to get through loads of tough spots and close situations. Lets say you get into 5 all ins,where your chance of winning is 70/30 in your fsvour. You will win most of these ,however,obviously you will rarely win all of them as well. And then people think they're running bad,because they "lost with the best hand" while mathematicly they would have been eliminated before that situation already.
So yeah,to sum up,be happy that these russian donks (or donks from whatever nation) are even there. They keep the games alive.
Woah Buddy! Donks are nice to have...agreed!
Sitting at a table with 4 Russians trying to outbluff each other is NOT so nice. In fact you are screwed!
Why do people look for Cash tables with a high % flop? Because you can play your cards!!!
Tournaments with a high rate of exagerated betting decreases your chances of actually using your Brain!
Do you get that?
What if you are sitting there getting 83o, j2o, 63o..etc for an hour? I´ll tell you:
You get blinded out because you can´t even see a flop! Whatever you do they WILL call you. Try a turbo table with 4 Russians. Good luck Buddy!
PS: Don´t want to sound like an idiot, but of course bad players are nice to have, but faced with SO may bluffers in a tournament...it all comes down to luck, and that is the only thing they "gamble" on. That´s why the higher limits are different. (thank God) You just need the Bankroll to play those limits......
Edited by IslandJack (05 October 2011 @ 03:52 GMT)
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
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Posted by IslandJack:
Sitting at a table with 4 Russians trying to outbluff each other is NOT so nice. In fact you are screwed!
Why do people look for Cash tables with a high % flop? Because you can play your cards!!!
Tournaments with a high rate of exagerated betting decreases your chances of actually using your Brain!
Do you get that?
What if you are sitting there getting 83o, j2o, 63o..etc for an hour? I'll tell you:
You get blinded out because you can't even see a flop! Whatever you do they WILL call you. Try a turbo table with 4 Russians. Good luck Buddy!
PS: Don't want to sound like an idiot, but of course bad players are nice to have, but faced with SO may bluffers in a tournament...it all comes down to luck, and that is the only thing they "gamble" on. That's why the higher limits are different. (thank God) You just need the Bankroll to play those limits......
How is it not nice to have bluffy russians on your table? You can get max. value off your hands that way.
No,tournaments with a loose game-flow are exactly what you want. Not using your brain? lol,in poker you always have to use your brain. You can always think in ranges,how you can get max. value postflop and stuff like this. Regardless that I'm always playing several tables and then usually dont pick up reads like peoples betting-lines,I still play based on peoples stats. Even this give syou the possibility of deep thinking,if you have time to pick up "proper" reads like peoples betting patterns you can get into even more deep thinking. So the argument that it's impossible to use your brain is not valid.
What if you are carddead for an hour? First off having a whole hour of getting your mentioned hands is very unlikely. It will eventually happen sometimes,but it's not likely. What you do when it happens? First off,you dont need a great hand to open hands in MTTs. And if people are looser than the usual players,you can play more hands and you gotta open up your ranges. This is why hand charts or s**t like this are bad. You always have to adjust to the situation and the opponent,you can't just play like what a piece of paper says. 2nd of all,as I mentioned above,poker is a game of longterm success,not shortterm. You can play all day and not get any so called playable hand,in theory at least. However all this time will even out with you getting monsters at a later point,and that's where you'll get max. value from those people. This is where volume comes into effect. Obv. there will be a phase you get sucked out 20 times in a row by a donkey russian or a donkey from whatever country,but at the same time if you are a winning player,you will get more in EV in the future than what you've lost through all those suckouts. I've been on a $500 downswing just recently (while my average buy in was about $5,so in technically I lost about 100 buy ins). Do you think I went into the next corner and cried how bad people are,how often I get sucked out by the evil russians? Eventually I was thinking that,but on te other hand I told myself that their dumbness will make me much more money if I'd just keep going,and I regained more than what I've lost after just 500 games (I know this sounds a lot to some of you,but it's actually the volume I play in 10 days by now). So really,there is no need to even get angry about bad play. If you get sucked out 50 times in a row,it should not matter at all if you have the perfect mindset. You seem to think in single games,seeing you said "you don't get any playable hands" etc. In reality this happens more often than people think,but yeah,that's just the way variance goes. For this reason it's important to get many games in to even out this factor.
fyi,yes I tried "turbo tables" with russians (I specialize in turbos and it's safe to say 95% of what I play are turbo SNGs/MTTs). Does it bother me if I get shortstacked? Not really. Like I said above,the more people call,the looser your range can be. Lets just assume a usual blind vs. blind situation. You have 19BBs in the SB and a donkey russian bigstack is in the BB. Your usual shoving range would be about 45% of all hands (Any A,K,suited Q and so on). A usual calling range would be 25%. If you know their calling range is 25%,the optimal play in this situation would be to just shove 24% though. Again,this would be the case against a standard,thinking player. But now lets assume the russian bigstack is such a gambler and will call with 100% of his hands. In this case you can actually shove 49% of your hands profitably. So again,you always have to adjust to the situation,especially in turbos,about what you are shoving argument of having been carddead is invalid in turbos,because in reality most of the equity you made will come from stolen blinds and antes. There are more spots where you can shove any 2 against anyone than you might think. Waiting for a hand is simply no option in turbos.
To your PS: Obviously it comes down to luck if you judge by a few tournaments.This way you turn poker into a pure luckgame no matter how good you are and no matter who you play against. Anything under 1000 games is no sample size. Play 1000 games against people like this and you will most of the time see success (even after 1000 games the luck factor isn't eliminated though, obv). But whoever says "they get lucky so often" doesn't understand luck and variance involved in poker and has no sample size to understand how happy we should be that these idiots are even around.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
I dont think its hate for russia rather than some russian donk players which are many. But their number has also to do with their population as already mentioned.
Posted by TheMachineQC: Yeah exactly... Actually russians are usually good in maths, they always had good scientists and mathematicians ^^
This post = tillt
I'm mathematician and, as far as I know, the fact of Russian are good in maths it's just a stereotype nowadays. When they were in URSS they grown up with strong scientist skills. Nowadays it's very different. Maths may help to you to understand better poker but I'm sure that 99,9% of Russian players you play are not mathematicians ... If so, they don't play as bad as they usually do.
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i do no hate i love everybody in the world. the way to be happy is to be happy with all everyone. i am brazilian and i do the right to do all my work to love all people. sorry i am too happy today. vivaaaaaa
Joined: Oct '09
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Posted by BeMyATMplz:
To your PS: Obviously it comes down to luck if you judge by a few tournaments.This way you turn poker into a pure luckgame no matter how good you are and no matter who you play against. Anything under 1000 games is no sample size. Play 1000 games against people like this and you will most of the time see success (even after 1000 games the luck factor isn't eliminated though, obv). But whoever says "they get lucky so often" doesn't understand luck and variance involved in poker and has no sample size to understand how happy we should be that these idiots are even around.
Nice post. Really. And of course you are right.
The problem for people like me is that we don´t put in this kind of volume. I used to play a lot last year, but since a while now I just want to play some Tournaments now and then. That´s when the fun goes straight out the window in these kinds of games.
The theory is sound, but only when applying it statistically and having the volume of games you mention. Looking forward to playing a Tournament, only to get seated at a table with half of it crazy donks... Or building a nice stack if you get a more decent table, only to end up with a table change where the big stack crazies are making 4x to even 10x pre-flop raises EVERY turn...pffffff
Sure it´s bull, and they are mostly not holding any cards, but just when you make a move before having all your raises "stolen" with ridiculous all-ins (because they DO put you all-in most of the time if you decide to go for it), just then he´ll be holding a monster or luck out on you with trips or a straifht or a four-flush board or whatever.
It´s not like I´m running 4-8 tournaments at the same time, so there goes the Poker day...once again. But I don´t want to whine, just the way it´s grown lately, the Online Poker game. Just sad for those who like to play a decent game which is becoming increasingly difficult at the low limits.
The fact that the Russians get these kinds of comments is simply because they have "invaded" the Poker tables in HUGE numbers the last year or so, and a LOT of them play this kind of crazy aggressive "gambling" type of game with little consideration to anything even close to Poker elements like ranges, stacks, position, or anything else for that matter. If I want to "gamble", I would log in to a Casino.
