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Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by shokaku:
Posted by doomdy: There is no problem if they stay just steal there blinds..
If you think there is no problem then you have never seen one away player win one all-in after another. They are in the BB and win with junk, next round again, and again...Meanwhile other players bust out left and right.
Yes but its a freeroll you know this, freerolls are sometimes fucked up. Its also with points buyin mtt littl bit the same many disc, you know this from the start just take your advantage of it.
Joined: Nov '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 60
Yes should be BOOTED stright away was playing the pkrfreeroll earlyer and the table i was on only had 2 players me and another playing everyone else was diconnected or sitting out it took the pi**
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by jamiew123: Yes should be BOOTED stright away was playing the pkrfreeroll earlyer and the table i was on only had 2 players me and another playing everyone else was diconnected or sitting out it took the pi**
Joined: Dec '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 17
Nope, never ever on this planet, ever, should you want them to be removed and if you do then maybe you need to rethink your freeroll strategy or just avoid them altogether.
Hate to sound obnoxious in my first post here but there's a lot of +ve factors that sitouts bring to freerolls if you have the vision to look past the nuggets that wont flush!!!
I specifically look for freerolls with a large field of sitouts; 1.For every sitout, thats 1 less player to fight against for the pot and $$$'s, 2.For every sitout at your table the value of you hand increases and decisions are easier, 3.For every sitout, the length of time you have to invest in the freeroll decreases,
I use the sitouts as MTT milestone barometer, once the sitouts are at 1BB thats when the real tournement starts! There's too many advantages for including them!
Posted by MrMan: The reason for my involment now, was that two players when all-in preflop with AA and KK, and of-course one got eliminated before making the money. Was it bad play to go all-in before making the money?!
Of course, it wasn't a bad play. But it was only 1 player who eliminated. And this is not so usual situation. What about other hundreds or even thousands on players? You should think about your play and tactics but not others.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 342
I believe that if a player is not there at the start to take their seat then they should not play.
The reason is that it changes the dynamic of the table and increases the luck element significantly.
If you happen to have a sit out player on your left then you get his BB for free most often and you get two buttons. Obviously if more than one player to your left is siting out then the situation just gets ridiculous with the lucky player getting a load of free chips and position on most hands.
I've played on a 10 man table with one active player to my left followed by 8 non players. What a nightmare - effectively a heads up battle where he has position on me for 9 out of 10 hands and gets a load of free chips probably 8 out of 10 hands.
Also on many sites the freerolls are full, with many players not getting a chance to play. By booting out all the non starters, others that want the seat would be allowed a late entry.
I specifically look for freerolls with a large field of sitouts; 1.For every sitout, thats 1 less player to fight against for the pot and $$$'s, 2.For every sitout at your table the value of you hand increases and decisions are easier, 3.For every sitout, the length of time you have to invest in the freeroll decreases,
Well, good arguments. But you will get the same result if the sit-out get kick-out after like 3 blinds.
1. All sit-out is out and there are less players to fight against 2. All depends on your position to the sit-out and the other active players, and can be highly unfair, as metion by Dellbo99. 3. Eliminate the sit-out at once and you reduce the amount of players and time likewise.
Posted by MrMan: The reason for my involment now, was that two players when all-in preflop with AA and KK, and of-course one got eliminated before making the money. Was it bad play to go all-in before making the money?!
Of course, it wasn't a bad play. But it was only 1 player who eliminated. And this is not so usual situation. What about other hundreds or even thousands on players? You should think about your play and tactics but not others.
So I see that you have nothing to say about that so that proves that I'm right.
So I see that you have nothing to say about that so that proves that I'm right.
Hi
I tried to sum up my answer in the replay to TopPair2Pair.
I totaly agree that I must think of my own play and not the others. Well, I must think of wath kind of players they are....
At the tabel after one of the players were elimineded (AA vs. KK) we all agreed that is was a shame that players who didn't logg inn could get in the money.
I think the minimum requirement to get money in a freeroll is to logg inn, and if you want to sit-out then you choose to do that. It must be said that it is not normal that sit-outs get in the money. But this was a tourney with 18 placed paid and only 35 registred and a pricepool of 5000$.
Joined: Dec '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 17
Posted by MrMan: 1. All sit-out is out and there are less players to fight against
Theorectically and mathmatically, yes, your correct in looking at things from the perspective of the "whole" tournement. But i am trying highlight the benefits based sheerly on table dynamics.
Basically imagine a MTT where for the first hour players can play on a heads up table, a 6max table or a full ring table, they only have to pay blinds every ninth & tenth hand, and the pot always starts at 1.5 the BB... where would you want to play? Its a very odd example but thats exactly how i think sitouts at the table need to be viewed, dead chips that your gotta fight for.
If you remove them you also remove the dead chips!
Posted by TopPair2Pair: Theorectically and mathmatically, yes, your correct in looking at things from the perspective of the "whole" tournement. But i am trying highlight the benefits based sheerly on table dynamics.
Basically imagine a MTT where for the first hour players can play on a heads up table, a 6max table or a full ring table, they only have to pay blinds every ninth & tenth hand, and the pot always starts at 1.5 the BB... where would you want to play? Its a very odd example but thats exactly how i think sitouts at the table need to be viewed, dead chips that your gotta fight for.
If you remove them you also remove the dead chips!
Theorectically if alle the dead chips got evenly diveded between all activ players, non of the active players gets an advantage.
But, we both know this is not the reality. The sits-out will give the agressive players an advantage. And if also the position is good, this kind of player can pick up alot of dead blinds and the tight more safeplaying players get in a poorer position after all the sit-out is gone.
I have no problems with this, I just think that it increases the luck factor and I like to reduce it.
Anyway, my main issue agains sit-outs are that I don't think that they should get in the money. The freerolls should reward the active players, not those who do not logg in.
Sometimes I play freerolls on Full Tilt because there are tournaments shared among players of same country. So there are 500-600 players every evening end it is easier to go ITM. Once I won it ( 15 bucks ).
The sits-out will give the agressive players an advantage. And if also the position is good, this kind of player can pick up alot of dead blinds and the tight more safeplaying players get in a poorer position after all the sit-out is gone.
The agressive players get the advantage but tight players can also take blinds when they have good hands. And they don't need much to survive against sit-outs. So when the number of active players is less than the number of paid places then it is the advantage of active players, not sit-outs. If the situation is on bubble you should think if you can risk with a good hand or you can just wait for prizes when the sit-outs are blinded out. So no reason to disqualify the sit-outs. As for me I never try to earn money on sit-outing. I'm always playing if I can. To sum up when the sit-out get the prize it is the problem of the active players busted on bubble rather than the problem of the sit-outs themselves.
Joined: Dec '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 17
Posted by MrMan: The sits-out will give the agressive players an advantage. And if also the position is good, this kind of player can pick up alot of dead blinds and the tight more safeplaying players get in a poorer position after all the sit-out is gone.
Its annoying but imo u gotta adjust to the diff table dynamics and really take the sitouts to town and pick off the agg players in the side pots once the blinds get to a decent level, if your not being aggressive enough then a freeroll is the perfect place to practise playing like a right d**k end without busting out.
there's nits who pay to play MTTs, get a huge chip lead and then sitout waiting for final 30 or 100 depending on the field... what if that is what the sitout that cashed did?
If you get unlucky with position then so be it, you gotta pop back at these agg players, outplay them on the flop. Bluff them every now and then and show them u had absolutely sod all, it'll drive them mad, especially if you lead out of position.
If its just me in the small blind and sitout in bb i will complete my blind and then check the sitout down to river and take the pot with the best hand to show to the other players at table i am nuts and confident in my nuts, lol, obviously betting when i've completely missed.
Then when the s/o are down to less then 1bb the side pots will be very juicy and bugger it, if you think your behind, fold.... you'll still get to see the agg players hand and obtain info on how they play side pots for future reference.
I would just view freerolls with big field of sitouts as a bonus and adjust accordingly, thats all i'm trying to promote.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
occasionally iv lost my signal and missd half the tourney. it wouldn't be fair if i couldn't get paid cos of connection problems. sometimes i enter a tournament and have to go out for an hour. if im still in play when i come bk ill pick it up. i think its wrong to enter a tourney if you have no intention of playing as someone else could have that seat but poker rooms should never disqualify someone for not playing. it would be too hard to separate ppl who sit out. for instance how do you compare someone who logged in for 1 min then sat out til the payouts from someone who missed the first half an hour but played from there on.
------------ actually i just realised i was sposed to be playing a freeroll tourney on partypoker right this moment. i know i wont make the payouts if i dont log in
Posted by awood88: occasionally iv lost my signal and missd half the tourney. it wouldn't be fair if i couldn't get paid cos of connection problems. sometimes i enter a tournament and have to go out for an hour. if im still in play when i come bk ill pick it up. i think its wrong to enter a tourney if you have no intention of playing as someone else could have that seat but poker rooms should never disqualify someone for not playing. it would be too hard to separate ppl who sit out. for instance how do you compare someone who logged in for 1 min then sat out til the payouts from someone who missed the first half an hour but played from there on.
------------ actually i just realised i was sposed to be playing a freeroll tourney on partypoker right this moment. i know i wont make the payouts if i dont log in
Yes. I totally agree with that. I don't think that we should change the rules of the tournaments. So I can't understand why most of people voted "yes". I'm sure that most of them didn't even think about it seriously.
Joined: Dec '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 8
I think it is good to kick out players who are not even logged on, not immediatly but after 10 minutes tournament play.
and you should always double the blinds if you have sitting out players on the table.
A few weeks ago i laughed my head of, i was late to log on so i was sitting out in a freeroll. The starting stack was 2000 and i came 15/20 later, blinds were already 2 times raised and just switched to 50/100 and i had a stack of almost 5000. Dont ask me how but i tought it was funny.
