Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
I played a sick hand, not sure if i played it right I didnt loose much chips but still i never saw this. Giv ur thoughts please. Handhistorys are kind off sucky at PKR so i do it plusminus. SNG 10seater early stage blinds 20/40.
I am BB and find 27o. Middle pos limps, SB limps, i check (3way POT 120, same stacksize plusminus 1500)
FLOP: 2J2 (2 hearts)
SB checks, i shoot bet pot 120, middle calls, SB calls. (Put them on QJ/KJ and a flushdraw)
Turn: J (no hearts)
SB checks, i shoot another 120 to make sure (problably stupid not? ) Middle calls, SB reraises too 240. I cant call so easy fold.
River: 2 (sick )
Btw SB won with AJ, middl had 99.
Please giv ur opinion bout this hand. I didnt lost many chips but did i play it right?
Joined: May '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 467
You knew you were beat on the turn and made the right fold, you can't count on a 1 outer to hit. If you would have checked the turn the river would probably have been cheap or free tho.
Joined: Nov '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 2194
Hmmm you was right to put at least one of them on a J and in that situation you was right to fold. Noing that you was beat at that time was good and you cant hag about in pots when you know you are beat just wishing to hit a one card outer. If the pot was checked to you and you could check then thats fine or if the others just called your 120 bet then obviously you would still be in the pot to see your mirical card come... So dont beat your self up at all as you needed to put a feller bet out to know where you stand thats the right thing to do for sure. if your hanging around in pots you shouldn't be in you'll get burnt.........
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 58 (M)
Posts: 29
Good fold, you're FH doesn't beat Jx,he makes a come on and raise me bet, but maybe you should have donkbetted the flop, now you make a potbet, to take the pot, because a flopped set can get you in big problems, like now.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
If you had put one opponent on a Jack you should not bet on the turn. After the raise on the turn you have to drop it. But not raising with AJ against one limper? Strange play.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
In this situation checking the flop would be best IMO and if MP bets out just call if its not too big. Why? you have trips with bad kicker and since MP just limped he could be holding anything including A2, there is a flush draw on board and another J could fall making your hand completely unplayable. Lets assume that You checked and MP bets 90 on flop which you just call. Once that J hits the board on turn and you say he had J, he doesnt want to get you out of the pot. He wants you to call, so im guessing turn bet from him would have been from 100-150 and maybe even check, him trying to trap. This way for you there is a possibility to see river for free and if you want to chase that 2% at least it wont cost you too much.
In case that flop is rainbow CR on flop is the best thing to do. Small chances of someone chasing his pocket pair with CR and if someone is holding J your CR makes it hard to chase because CR is like saying "I really do have 2 thanks for your chips now fold" and with worst hand you got yourself some chips which in normal hand would never belong to you. With possible flush draw on flop you must overbet those 2`s big time to get flush draw out of the hand on flop and it is definitely not good thing to do in tourney not to mention that trying to get someone with the flush draw in limped pot out of the hand on flop is almost impossible. In rainbow flop case, I think you would get rid of both players while you still had the best hand and with little more than 120 chips in the pot and I don`t mean smal CR. In case 1 left or as it was 2, definitely check on turn and hope to see river for free. Without CR they might think you don`t have 2, which is good if you have J on JJ2 flop but with small cards, especially 2`s, there is always a possibility that these things would happen making you a complete underdog in one card. In some other situation one might call to see turn because of flush draw or middle pocket pair hoping to see river for free, i checked afterwards and saw that guy actually did had 99, if 3rd suit comes on turn and giving him extra card for relatively small call considering that once he checks the turn you might bet big and get pot committed on river if he hits his pocket pair.
Sorry for long post but I felt both situations should be covered because they are not played the same and some people might get the wrong ideas about playing lucky small set on flop.
Joined: Jun '09
Location: France
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 670
To my mind you could check on the turn. Cause the play with the jack perhaps won't bet to hide his hand so you can earn a lot of chips at the river. But you can't play hand with the idea to have a quad on the river.In the most of case It don't happen
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
You shouldn't have bet on turn when u saw a jack as you already put them on qj/kj. It was right to fold on turn. I think hitting trips with a low card when 2 of them sre on board is always risky as some high card might turn up like this and someone with a pair might also hit a fullhouse. so i prefer to either play very aggressive or very passive in this situation.
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2644
Posted by Predobar: In this situation checking the flop would be best IMO and if MP bets out just call if its not too big. Why? you have trips with bad kicker and since MP just limped he could be holding anything including A2, there is a flush draw on board and another J could fall making your hand completely unplayable. Lets assume that You checked and MP bets 90 on flop which you just call. Once that J hits the board on turn and you say he had J, he doesnt want to get you out of the pot. He wants you to call, so im guessing turn bet from him would have been from 100-150 and maybe even check, him trying to trap. This way for you there is a possibility to see river for free and if you want to chase that 2% at least it wont cost you too much.
In case that flop is rainbow CR on flop is the best thing to do. Small chances of someone chasing his pocket pair with CR and if someone is holding J your CR makes it hard to chase because CR is like saying "I really do have 2 thanks for your chips now fold" and with worst hand you got yourself some chips which in normal hand would never belong to you. With possible flush draw on flop you must overbet those 2`s big time to get flush draw out of the hand on flop and it is definitely not good thing to do in tourney not to mention that trying to get someone with the flush draw in limped pot out of the hand on flop is almost impossible. In rainbow flop case, I think you would get rid of both players while you still had the best hand and with little more than 120 chips in the pot and I don`t mean smal CR. In case 1 left or as it was 2, definitely check on turn and hope to see river for free. Without CR they might think you don`t have 2, which is good if you have J on JJ2 flop but with small cards, especially 2`s, there is always a possibility that these things would happen making you a complete underdog in one card. In some other situation one might call to see turn because of flush draw or middle pocket pair hoping to see river for free, i checked afterwards and saw that guy actually did had 99, if 3rd suit comes on turn and giving him extra card for relatively small call considering that once he checks the turn you might bet big and get pot committed on river if he hits his pocket pair.
Sorry for long post but I felt both situations should be covered because they are not played the same and some people might get the wrong ideas about playing lucky small set on flop.
OMG so much bullsh_t in this post that I don't even know where to start. So I wont.
3way limp pot, I pot flop(sometimes CR) but with 2 callers and J turn I give up this hand. HU depends alot on opponent style how I play turn.
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2644
@Predobar
Ok I more or less disagree in everything you say and I think your thoughts are way off too. I didn't write my reasons because you don't listen anyway(remember the "analyze my stats" thread) so it was more of a warning to the rest in this thread that your post was nonsence.
But here we go anyway:
"In this situation checking the flop would be best IMO and if MP bets out just call if its not too big."
So you are going to let 2 villains draw free to the flush and not getting value from J's and pockets? What's your plan on blanc turn and river, are you in CC-mode 3streets with a set on a flushy board?
"you have trips with bad kicker and since MP just limped he could be holding anything including A2, there is a flush draw on board and another J could fall making your hand completely unplayable."
So we are not betting because we are affraid that one of the 3 J's falling and because someone could have higher set which we will never know because we didn't bet?
"Lets assume".....Let's not do the guessing game.
"In case that flop is rainbow CR on flop is the best thing to do. Small chances of someone chasing his pocket pair with CR and if someone is holding J your CR makes it hard to chase because CR is like saying "I really do have 2 thanks for your chips now fold" and with worst hand you got yourself some chips which in normal hand would never belong to you."
So when villains calling range gets smaller(no draws) equals higher chance he got you dominated when he calls, you turn up your CR frequency? Huh? Are you CR'ing for value or as bluff? What do want to call your CR with no draws on board? Why don't you want someone to chase a 2outer, it's like money in the bank?
"With possible flush draw on flop you must overbet those 2`s big time to get flush draw out of the hand on flop and it is definitely not good thing to do in tourney not to mention that trying to get someone with the flush draw in limped pot out of the hand on flop is almost impossible."
You started out by saying "In this situation checking the flop would be best IMO" now you want to do the opposit and overbet. Don't overbet,it makes it harder to get away from if the draw completes or a really nitty player shows resistance we are able to get away from it knowing he got higher 2's or turn-riverred a house. Besides we want to charge draws not scare them away.
"In rainbow flop case, I think you would get rid of both players while you still had the best hand"
Again villains are drawing to 2 outs and should be allowed to, they just have to PAY. What are you affraid of will outdraw you on a J22r board when you got 27? Villain are drawing to 2 outs or he's got you dominated(out kicked).
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