Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by JazzyJeff: Well taking those meassures is allready a sign of disipline And reading to improve your game is always good, i'm actually looking for a good book to improve my pl omaha game, any suggestions?
Nah, I don't play PLO - I understand the rules and that is about it. I should probably have a crack one day, although there is very little PLO action at PKR.
However - I do have a suggestion for buying books in general: I'm a member of a survey site, this one is yourvoice.com.au and I get rewarded with points for taking surveys (about products, services etc - just market research). I can then cash out the points to online stores like amazon. So every 2 months or so I've built up around $30.00 so I can use that to buy books from amazon. If you work in an office, as I do, it's a really good idea, because you can just do the survey while at work and it's like getting paid twice lol.
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Posted by JazzyJeff: I'm still running steady, had a great summer so far, pokerwise, i'm just a little frustrated about FT, i have about 2,2 K in my FT account and i'm still hopefull
Yeh; thats a shame about tilt, hopefully it will come good though, still not over yet thats for sure. And look at it this way - on p2p when Black Friday first happened everyone was thinking their money would be tied up for many months before they got it back, it was only that PS was able to pay it back so quick that then everyone with ftp money suddenly looked to be stuck for huge amounts.. But the reality is, with a case as complex and complicated as this, there was always an expectation of a long time before money could be accessed, but it certainly isn't to say you won't get it back in the end. I think in particular if tilt gets it's license back, the only way they'll get any future customers is if they pay back the current ones..
Thanks for the answers Jess and thanks for taking the time to explain the way you think.
Everything you said is true and I think the exact same way. Having a maniac image is definetly good because players don't want to play a hand against you unless they have a monster, and when they do, as you said, they usually try to trap you and they end up trapping themselves
I asked those questions because I was wondering if my agressive style was good for MTT. I also like to see flops in position and outplay "weak" opponents. Usually I start good, get a big stack and then end up playing like a nit in mid tournament because I don't wanna lose it close to the bubble. But I see you do the exact opposite, you start tight and then loosen up your game when most people start tightening up their game. Very good idea. I first tought you were a pretty tight player but now I see we have pretty similar deep-thinker style. But you are A LOT more experienced in MTT!
Also I see you seem to "choose" what players you want to play hands against a lot. Ill try to take more notes on other players in order to know against what kind of player im up against. Having info on a lot of players must give you a nice edge on most people, and PKR is perfect for that because of the low traffic. I also like PKR so I think I will start playing MTT there (+ the cash game rakes seem to be pretty high). I actually made 6$ out of 30 cents from the 10cents giveaways tonight, I'll start with the small 1,30$ 375$ added facebook tournament tomorrow
It's a shame I withdrawed the 84 bucks I won with the 2 tickets from BRM tough, now I gotta start from scratch! I think I'll make my first deposit on PKR next time their INSTANT 20$ offer comes and play 10$ MTTs. I prefer those buyins because players are actually readable. In small MTTs most people don't even know what range and position is, the level of players is usually very close to a freeroll...
My best result in a MTT was like a year ago on FTP. It was the Big Little Tournament (2,20$), there was about 62500 players... I finished 90th. Some aggro donk raised 3x with AQ off suit, I called on the button with 10-7 of spades, flop came 899 with 2 spades. He bet, I went all in and he insta called, and his ace high (with no spades) held Really felt like a freeroll call on his part... Afterwards, I was frustrated at myself for playing the hand because we both had a big stack and the final table cashes were just HUGE for the kind of buyin. (I think it was about 7k to 1st, the 5 first players actually split for around 5k each) But really with that flop there was nothing I could do, especially against this player... Since then I havent played much MTT, but I really think it's the best way to make big money online.
Edited by TheMachineQC (11 August 2011 @ 03:27 GMT)
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
I asked those questions because I was wondering if my agressive style was good for MTT. I also like to see flops in position and outplay "weak" opponents. Usually I start good, get a big stack and then end up playing like a nit in mid tournament because I don't wanna lose it close to the bubble. But I see you do the exact opposite, you start tight and then loosen up your game when most people start tightening up their game.
There is definitely no reason to NOT play a loose game in the early stages, if you're very good at small-ball poker (deep stack, small pots) then it is a good idea, I experimented with this a bit, opened my range right up and my vpip was insanely high, but in the end I found that vs the donks in the games I was playing it was better to adopt a tighter stratergy earlier on - although still definitely including speculative hands (connecters, small pps, etc) because these are best early on, when stacks are deep. But I found that trying to out-think players using small-ball poker was very ineffective in the $20-$30 range, still a lot of donks here in the first hour and what I found was this:
I was able to put them on a hand, or a range fairly well and floated their bets and tried to steal etc on later streets but blowing their pot odds, etc - and in the end I found I'd just get called down by people ignoring pot-odds, etc and then justifying their terrible calls. So my conclusion was it's better to break out the fancy play in the later stages against the more thinking opponents that make it further into the game. As always - ABC against the donks is generally the best strategy, they're using level-1 thinking and if you try to think at level-3,4,N you'll just level yourself.
edit: Regarding tightening up in the later stages, this is definitely a mistake a lot of MTT players make.. You should generally do the opposite. My first 400 or so games I played like this and at best I broke even, but if anything, was running a bit under. Don't be afraid of the bubble or busting with a min-cash. MTT payouts are top-heavy, you gotta go for the win. You pretty much have to make the FT to get a decent return on investment and even then often only the top-3 placements offer a serious ROI. So go for broke, don't be afraid of busting from a game, you're better off busting on the bubble in 10 games and winning 1 game than you are min-cashing 10 games.
For example, those most recent results I posted - I played ten games, I busted from seven of them, two of them were within 1-2 places from the bubble and I wasn't short stacked either. But it's that same attitude that allowed me to cash well in the three I did cash in (two first places and a third).
Also I see you seem to "choose" what players you want to play hands against a lot.
This is very important. Particularly when you're trying to work out your opponents range, a donk for example might raise A8+, K10s+ etc from UTG and even call 3bets with KJ, JQ etc. Whereas if you see a solid player raising from UTG they probably have a monster and you should never call from MP,LP with AQ type hands, stick to dominating hands like KK/AA/AK(maybe) and then hands like 78s, 33-88, etc. Likewise, when deciding whether to bluff or not, remember the golden rule as always - if you're bluffing a thinking player, think about your image and what they might think and decide whether it is a good spot or not, try not to be obvious like stealing from button, sb etc all the time. If you're against a weak player, just value-bet them all the way, don't bluff.
. I actually made 6$ out of 30 cents from the 10cents giveaways tonight, I'll start with the small 1,30$ 375$ added facebook tournament tomorrow
That's good man ! GL with it.
Edited by jessthehuman (11 August 2011 @ 03:23 GMT)
Thanks for the good advice, really appreciated! (and sorry about the edit lol)
I'll just play my game all tournament long, analyse my opponents and pick my spots without thinking about the bubble, cash and stuff! That's clearly the big mistake I kept doing. Gotta think long term and aim for first position
------------ Ah, I can't find the password for the 375 added tournament. Nor on facebook or on forums... Anyone knows how to find it? Usually I'm able to but not this time
Edited by TheMachineQC (11 August 2011 @ 18:30 GMT)
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 818
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by JazzyJeff: Well taking those meassures is allready a sign of disipline And reading to improve your game is always good, i'm actually looking for a good book to improve my pl omaha game, any suggestions?
Nah, I don't play PLO - I understand the rules and that is about it. I should probably have a crack one day, although there is very little PLO action at PKR.
However - I do have a suggestion for buying books in general: I'm a member of a survey site, this one is yourvoice.com.au and I get rewarded with points for taking surveys (about products, services etc - just market research). I can then cash out the points to online stores like amazon. So every 2 months or so I've built up around $30.00 so I can use that to buy books from amazon. If you work in an office, as I do, it's a really good idea, because you can just do the survey while at work and it's like getting paid twice lol.
Posted by JazzyJeff: I'm still running steady, had a great summer so far, pokerwise, i'm just a little frustrated about FT, i have about 2,2 K in my FT account and i'm still hopefull
Yeh; thats a shame about tilt, hopefully it will come good though, still not over yet thats for sure. And look at it this way - on p2p when Black Friday first happened everyone was thinking their money would be tied up for many months before they got it back, it was only that PS was able to pay it back so quick that then everyone with ftp money suddenly looked to be stuck for huge amounts.. But the reality is, with a case as complex and complicated as this, there was always an expectation of a long time before money could be accessed, but it certainly isn't to say you won't get it back in the end. I think in particular if tilt gets it's license back, the only way they'll get any future customers is if they pay back the current ones..
Good to hear you're running well otherwise.
Nice extra and well spend i say, looking at your PKR winnings. I"ll have a look at amazon but i don't know what PLO book to choose.
Yeah i know there's still a fair chance of getting it back someday, especially with FT paying their fee to AGC. Thanks for giving me extra hope
I also like the answer you gave to TheMachine, that's exactlly how it was for me in the beginning, playing too tight when reaching the bubble, after a while i realised it was better to go for 1st place then making sure of moneyfinishes. Also to not get intimidated when playing big tourneys with a high buy-inn at stake. The rest of your answer was very accurate as well and will be benificial to a lot of mobsters
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
update my "BLOG":
Haven't had another MTT session since that one I posted earlier with the Monte Carlo win.. Been playing quite a bit, but due to Uni homework constraints haven't been able to do any marathon MTT sessions, just been doing 2hr blocks of cash games, combined with 2hr blocks of Uni homework.
After my last winnings, I donked a bit off playing silly stakes (umm.. around $900).. However, I've gotten that back and then some more.
I've been reading "Professional No Limit Holdem" that I got from Amazon using my "online survey" points from this web site yourvoice.com.au - they pay you to take surveys in points you can cash out to online stores like amazon. Have been reading it to and from work, about half-way through, really good read and not too intense on the maths (although there is quite a bit of it). Have been enjoying it and I think it has definitely been helping my game.
Today have mostly been playing 9-tables of nl100, up around 6 BI, or $600, for the day, which I am quite please with. I also took a "shot" at nl400 because there were 3 fish I had tagged sitting on a table together, I left the table with a bit over $1200 so that was sweet. Then my fish left and the dangerous regs hopped on so I skipped town on that one lol.
But my cash game is definitely starting to come together, I used to only be able to play profitably on 6 tables for anything over nl50, but now I am pretty well crushing 9-tables of nl100.. More than anything else, I am playing position. And not just my position, but taking notice or the position others are opening from as well, my LP calling range varies a LOT depending who opened the pot and from what position on the table..
Since PKR is a fairly small (traffic) web site, I've pretty well know who all the nl100 regs are now, so I can be careful against the other multi-tablers. Picking spots against weaker players is definitely the key.
Probably be a little while before I can have another big MTT session, but that's OK - I'm building stacks of PKR points playing ring, so I'll have lots of MTT buyins ready to go just from ring game points by the time I play them next, I received 25,000 pts from playing ring games today, which incidentally means I also paid $250 in rake in one day :O
Anyway, will report back here again in a few days to say how my ring games are going. I'm glad to finally be well-rolled for nl100, it's a lot easier to stay "in-line" than the micros since the money means a bit more now. Even on nl50 I made a lot of silly calls like TPTK for 100bb stacks etc, whereas on nl100 I rarely make those mistakes.. Although, ironically, sometimes I've found on nl200,400 when I take shots at those, you need to be a lot more willing to stack off on weaker hands, because the game is so much more aggressive. nl400 in particular I am seeing a tonnes of 3bet bluffs and even quite a few 4-bet bluffs, this just doesn't happen in nl50 and rarely on nl100.
------------ edit:
just had an other session, this time 2 hours 5 tables of 6max nl200 as the games were soft, for a while I was up around $700, finished the session up around $350, which is good, wish I quit earlier, but hey- no one would ever lose if they knew before hand when they had reached the peak they were going to earn for a session.. Was running hot for a bit, last 20min or so got coolered a few times + a bad beat and then I tilted some, I put an opponent on the exact hand he had, and still caleld the 75bb bet he made on the river, knowing i was beat.. That was the point I quit, once I start calling "just for the sake of calling" I know its break time.
don't know about all of you, but personally - I can drop buyins sooo fookin fast when I reach that point, do stupid s**t like call K10 OOP then get my stack in on a 10 high flop, etc.
Edited by jessthehuman (13 August 2011 @ 13:10 GMT)
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Impressive improvements Jess, very impressive (only judging your stats that is).
It really sounds like a player that have the skills to improve and not just happy with the one for now, i honestsly say i am not like that atm, my biggest strong point is only my patience basicly, i am just a nit winning at the stakes i can easily beat with a uber nitty bankrollmanagement (playing $10 stakes with $50K roll), which is (i think) basicly your (was?) weakest point. Thats the only thing i am worry about, Jess tilting 6 tables NL1000 and in 1 night Jess roll is gone. Hoping you can keep this way and improve even more cos it really sounds like the beginning of something bigger.
Keep posting please, very much intresting were this ends....
But I have to say to me you really seem like very good MTT player. With your roll, the risks are smaller and the prizes are pretty good so I think you should keep playing that as much as possible
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by Almonds: ha ha just realised that i played that final table v u, muckinforon
Yeah, on the open ! I remember, I was HU against the idiot who took you out (A5 vs AK I think wasn't it) unbelievably bad, pissed me off so much to lose it.
Hah - I think I had a go at you too, before the final table me and you allin-pre my AA vs your A10 and you binked a straight on the river and just about put me out of the game !
Sorry about that, there really wasn't anything wrong with your play, I just lose my s**t at the table sometimes lol, especially then - by that time it was like 9am or something my time and I'd be up drinking all night, you actually played a really solid game and you were the only one on the FT that I was worried about really
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Posted by TheMachineQC: Almonds --> Are you talking about the PKR open?
Yeah, he played really well actually- IMO the only other good player on the FT. I think he cashed around 4th-5th... Almonds ?
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Posted by doomdy: Thats the only thing i am worry about, Jess tilting 6 tables NL1000 and in 1 night Jess roll is gone.
Yeah - this is obviously my concern as well, certainly my weak point and it would be pretty devasting to do as well, because in the past I've only ever really built rolls as high as $2k-$3k, but my roll now is a fair amount higher than that and it would really blow to lose it all tilting off @ nl1K.
I'm getting better now though, like last night I was 4-tabling nl400, when I joined there was a lot of fish but they all left quick and after 15min I realised it was an EV- game and I got out and took a break.. So hopefully I can continue to either A) preferably just stay out of these games B) Realise soon enough and quit the tables.
Posted by doomdy: Keep posting please, very much intresting were this ends....
Hah - I will.. I'm hoping to do an MTT session tomorrow morning (in about 20 hours or so) starting with the Monte Carlo or the Open depending how early I get up.
Edited by jessthehuman (15 August 2011 @ 22:19 GMT)
Hey jess!! Your advice served me well in the freeroll I was talking about in the other topic. I had AJ suited early position, and UTG raised x3,5. I remembered what you told me about these hands in this kind of position. I simply folded because he was playing tight, and he showed AK.
It's pretty sad I ended up losing before the bubble in that tournament cause I probably played the best poker of my life. But I need to make more moves for sure, not just to win more "free" chips, but also because it's boring to see 20% flops and getting cold decked right before the cash...
Joined: Aug '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 15
Nice but,dont hate on me, I am not impressed I personaly had better finishes...But CONGRATS....I am not criticising.But 1.2k is nice but you had bigger finishes right?
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by ImALuckBox: Nice but,dont hate on me, I am not impressed I personaly had better finishes...But CONGRATS....I am not criticising.But 1.2k is nice but you had bigger finishes right?
Best finish now is the $70 Monte Carlo win for just under ~$1.8K
But it's not so much about the individual games, it's about the fact that now I'm getting a pretty consistent ROI on MTTs and slowly building a (semi) decent roll.. I can now happily play $50 BI games and know I'm not playing them under-rolled or anything.
So yeah, I'm not so much proud of having "a big score", I mean, anyone can donk one game for $XXX and get a great graph going, but it's more that my results are now consistently good and I am confident that I am building a very strong MTT game (on P.K.R anyway lol).
And yes, I understand my wins are "BIG" - obvious if I posted my results on 2p2 I'd be laughed off the forum.. But we here came from humble beginnings and I love this forum so just wanted to sahre my success, you know ?
Joined: Aug '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 15
Great.....Know what you mean like when americans were not allowed and we were on FTP...god I ran good...I took down 3 on Demand Rush Turbos and the 28k. Guarantee all in 2 months and had a lot of FT-s...ALL OF IT STUCK AT HOWARD LEDERERS HOUSE NOW...
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
update:
Well, due to Uni work, unfortunately I've been unable to play any MTTs for a while, instead been doing cash sessions, which were going fine play nl100 & nl200. However, back to my old degenerate self I took a few too many "shots" at nl600/1000 and as a result lost a large amount, I won't say how much here, but quite a bit.
So I've withdrawn a large chunk of my bankroll and have just left myself $1,000 to play with for the time being, will stick to the lower stakes for a while. I decided I'd rather withdraw some and have something to show for it all.
Hopefully in a couple weeks my uni obligations won't be so full-on and I'll be able to get back to what I'm good at; MTTs.
Joined: Oct '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 63 (M)
Posts: 442
Posted by jessthehuman:
So I've withdrawn a large chunk of my bankroll and have just left myself $1,000 to play with for the time being, will stick to the lower stakes for a while. I decided I'd rather withdraw some and have something to show for it all.
And reading to improve
Really felt like a 
(and sorry about the edit lol)
