Joined: May '08
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Posted by Aggro666: FTP is rigged. Simply as that. In low and middle stack ( no high roll) there is a "auto-brake" for you on SnG and Cash, in the case you have a ROI that is too high u will lose favorite hands regardless of the EV. They MUST make this to avoid good players from withdrawing too much funds from the global pokersite BankRoll
Joined: Feb '10
Location: Finland
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wow, this is really interesting! Red it all thru. Ive heard the same story in another poker forum aswell. I doubt that FullTilt is actually rigged, but I must say before winning and profiting there at first I had my biggest downswing on that site - never had anything like that in pkr.com or in pokerstars.com. Year later I decided to give it another shot and since then its been pleasure, as much as Ive played there.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
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Posted by doomdy: @ Predobar:
I am sorry no offend, but to me its like u played many years off online poker, win some and loose some but overall u did not win. So now ur trying to prove its rigged cos its impossible u losing money?
No offend to u Predobar but wud u say the same thing if u were a winning player?
read last part of my previous post. BTW, I withdrew all my money from all online poker accounts to bank account and from now on I`m playing live only. Overall, I`m winning player doomdy, overall I play poker not math game. In the end I tested more than one site using this method and believe it or not wanna know which one passed the test and even that site only through limited time period. Absolute Poker, and period when everything was working fine was when they were in process of getting eCogra certificate and it lasted for about 6 months. Once they were approved for eCogra certificate, from what I`ve seen, everything got back to what it was before. They gave me free money a month ago, guess they missed me, so I went back and played couple thousand hands but its not the same RNG, almost certain of it but would not put my hand into the fire. I still have few bucks left there but who cares.That could be my fun bankroll, I cannot miss the irony in fact that only funds I have online now is on single site/network that was proven to be crooked. Again, this test is nothing about odds and probabilites when it comes to hands being dealt. Test is based on probablities YES, but different ones, this test is aiming to prove randomness on totally different level. As I said in previous post, I started explaining what this test is about and what it tests but it would be too long and there would be no point. At least not on this forum. This test of course has to touch a little that action hand theory, but its not that either. Now, if I started saying how far is this "thing"(there I avoided the word) really going without showing some proof I would look a little borderline schizophrenic in my eyes too. So please, comfort yourself looking at my FTP stats if that helps any, I don`t care and for some I even worked hard to make them look that way, at one point my PRF looseness was at 207% and AGG at 150% or so, and aggressivness around these numbers for FLOP 140%, Turn 120% and river 110%, I dont remember what was the showdown frequency peak, think it was around 100% more than optimal. And I was in positive during that period of 2 or 3 sessions, you can say days of playing but after that forget it, I was not "allowed" to play like that anymore. At first it could have been luck factor going bad but odds are against that such play, if played correctly, is unprofitable for longer time period and that has been proved in both live and online games. While you all are at my stats, try figuring out what would your stats look like if you were 107% looser, 106% more aggressive PRF and, for these I worked really hard to put them down, 21% flop, 32% turn and 34% river aggression higher than optimal. BTW, those optimal stats are calculated based on how people play on that level, so in fact those stats would look much more balanced if they were played on higher limit.
Joined: Sep '09
Location: Portugal
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Posted by Aggro666: FTP is rigged. Simply as that. In low and middle stack ( no high roll) there is a "auto-brake" for you on SnG and Cash, in the case you have a ROI that is too high u will lose favorite hands regardless of the EV. They MUST make this to avoid good players from withdrawing too much funds from the global pokersite BankRoll
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by Predobar: I even worked hard to make them look that way, at one point my PRF looseness was at 207% and AGG at 150% or so, and aggressivness around these numbers for FLOP 140%, Turn 120% and river 110%, I dont remember what was the showdown frequency peak, think it was around 100% more than optimal. And I was in positive during that period of 2 or 3 sessions, you can say days of playing but after that forget it, I was not "allowed" to play like that anymore. At first it could have been luck factor going bad but odds are against that such play, if played correctly, is unprofitable for longer time period and that has been proved in both live and online games. While you all are at my stats, try figuring out what would your stats look like if you were 107% looser, 106% more aggressive PRF and, for these I worked really hard to put them down, 21% flop, 32% turn and 34% river aggression higher than optimal. BTW, those optimal stats are calculated based on how people play on that level, so in fact those stats would look much more balanced if they were played on higher limit.
Joined: Nov '08
Location: Poland
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 98
I understand this guy, on FTP they have big rake and better players. And I've got an impression that this soft is rigged But I know it's probably not true
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
Posted by doomdy:
Posted by Predobar: I even worked hard to make them look that way, at one point my PRF looseness was at 207% and AGG at 150% or so, and aggressivness around these numbers for FLOP 140%, Turn 120% and river 110%, I dont remember what was the showdown frequency peak, think it was around 100% more than optimal. And I was in positive during that period of 2 or 3 sessions, you can say days of playing but after that forget it, I was not "allowed" to play like that anymore. At first it could have been luck factor going bad but odds are against that such play, if played correctly, is unprofitable for longer time period and that has been proved in both live and online games. While you all are at my stats, try figuring out what would your stats look like if you were 107% looser, 106% more aggressive PRF and, for these I worked really hard to put them down, 21% flop, 32% turn and 34% river aggression higher than optimal. BTW, those optimal stats are calculated based on how people play on that level, so in fact those stats would look much more balanced if they were played on higher limit.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
he mentions about the irony of having $ left on the only site/network "prooven to be crooked" (his words) yet the site/network was NOT prooven to be crooked. It was PROOVEN that individuals who worked for the company were using "super user accounts" (admin accounts) to access information that should not have been avail (hole cards of opponents) this has absoletly nothing and I mean NOTHING to do with RNGs and i think the very fact he even mentions it in his rant gives him much discredit.
I find his whole argument much like Religion vs Atheism. The onus is on the one making the claim to show proof, not for other people to disproove the claim. (see Church of the Flying spegatti monsters, or the tea-pot around saturn theory)
And so long as people are making these claims without also presenting proof and in this case, even theory, I will continue to refute them. I'm not saying it's not possible poker sites could use a rigged RNG, of course they could. But They could also be using a monkeys to randomly pick cards from the deck to make the flop and I'd like you to proove otherwise.
My point is and always will be, if you're going to make a claim contary to the popular beliefe/current testing/science (RNGs are certified BTW) then you need to provide a legitimate basis and EVIDENCE (stress EVIDENCE) for you claim, or shut the F up
Joined: Nov '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 2194
wow you seem quite pissed off . FTP not your cup of tea at all is it..... I play at FTP so I am very interested in what you have to say as if you know some thing I dont and FTP has some kind of underlying erk then please do share with us....
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
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@doomdy
Where did you got lost? If you got lost in part me saying i was pumping those stats sky high and then trying to get them down this might clear things up. I wanted to pump my stats high to players sitting at my table, not online stats, so they could call my bigger bets. Online stats actually show a little higher percentage since its accumulated value, not one projected on single table. My purpose was to project maniac image on the table. Once I noticed that RNG favoured opponents for prolonged period of time I stopped playing completely at FTP and when I played again at FTP those stats, and ones people had accumulated for me from previous sessions were actually killers for every strategy other than the one I tried to implement before. With PRF agg that high people would call my hand with really anything and if I did not hit there was no mean to get them out of the hand. Also, for first two weeks since I started playing there again, there were people popping at my table which I remember from tables, made notes on them, when I was playing that kind of play and they played like we were sitting at the tables today not few months ago. Obviously they made notes and if there is some fish finder software available I wouldnt be surprised that they used it. They would also sit at my table and then leave after 1 or 2 rounds of blinds when they saw I wasnt playing like that anymore. At this point I was working hard to get my stats back to normal because they work to my benefit only if I play that certain type of play, otherwise they make downswings even bigger.
@jesse
And so long as people are making these claims without also presenting proof and in this case, even theory, I will continue to refute themMy point is and always will be, if you're going to make a claim contary to the popular beliefe/current testing/science (RNGs are certified BTW) then you need to provide a legitimate basis and EVIDENCE (stress EVIDENCE) for you claim, or shut the F up... ...They could also be using a monkeys to randomly pick cards from the deck to make the flop and I'd like you to proove otherwise...
youre not showing proof either, always remember that. As for AP being crooked, read entire part about Absolute poker and I admit I made a mistake when I said site was crooked, players were but site did nothing to protect the players, and I am not referring to Potripper scandal, this is to do with that other scandal. There were changes regarding Kahnawake gaming commission and AP itself for the better lately. For the last part of the quote, and yet they could do even more things. When You show me proof they are not rigged I will show you mine. Since your not able to do this, neither of us will be showing the proof.
FYI, posting was made on CM(casinomeister) it referrs to online Video Poker and online Blackjack RNGs and REGULATIONS which might clear few things up how credible and how strict those licenses implemented. You might wanna read that one too. It`s way too long even for copy/paste.
I play at FTP so I am very interested in what you have to say as if you know some thing I dont and FTP has some kind of underlying erk then please do share with us....
Sorry, no. Let me explain this logicaly. What higher good will disclosure provide? Few people that are looking to become poker players might get turned away from pursuing that endeavour and even that would be big accomplishment, most likely nothing will happen. Others, which comprise most of the members here, will follow their dreams. Line from M.Moores Capitalism: A love story is coming to my mind, "Maybe one day I will become well-to-do myself" which summarizes this in single sentence. What could be the downside? Well for start, RNG makers could see where they flawed and fix it so it is harder to prove it afterwards. I`m not going to serve as software tester for something of that magnitude, at least not for free. Is BRM the right place for something like that? With all the respect for BRM and most of its members, I dont believe that BRM is the right place for it. Maybe CM or 2+2, but CM is full of affiliates who works with the sites themselves and 2+2 is also riddled with multiple accounts owned by gambling sites, mainly poker sites since its mainly poker related. Most likely outcome is that I will be be "outgunned" pretty quick and most of the members there also try to follow their dream. In situation where one is following some dream, that person is most likely to grasp on anything which will make that dream still live before admitting that it is a lost cause. So, against my hard evidence even a statement like "but they are licensed" will be sufficient to form an opinion that I am wrong.
Ok, so what I've got from it so far is, that you're testing RNG's to see if they are infact random with-out using math.
You got it wrong. It has everything to do with math, odds and probabilites, but different ones. Read a sentence after the one bolded out.
Posted by Predobar: I just closed my poker account at FTP. Not random not fair and congratulations to Fergie for making such obvious number generator. Thank god for online hand histories.
I think that full tilt poker room is the second best after pokerstars. but when you lose you always believe in conspiracies and other fantasies.
Joined: Mar '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 22
Hmm, in my opinion. If you close your account because you think there is fraude your arent an experienced pokerplayer. Every BIG pokerroom ( Party, Stars, FullTilt, PKR ) are playing with a random generator. Because they already earn lots of money with rakes and fee's for tournaments. If they screw your hand ( in a 40 $ pot for example ) and you think you played vs an computerised account. You should think out loud and ask yourself, dose FullTilt really gets better if they won 20 $ for me by in your opinion a uber bad beat?
No! You just got unlucky and cant accept the terms that you lose and win on poker.
