Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1457
Always thought I would never do this, but I did and I think it was the best thing to do.
situation : MTT , about 25 players left , top 20 in payout
I am on position 15
I am sitting in third position when I get AA action in front bigstack raises 3 BB I rerais up to 6 BB
player on the button goes all-in (has more chips then me) player on the BB calls (has 2nd highest stack) bigstack who raised initially goes also all-in
I fold
So player on the button calls (all-in)
Finish : player on the button wins with a tris of queens (had QQ) and there was no ace on the table so would have lost
But the main reason to fold was that if I went all-in it would be versus 3 or 4 players.
Joined: Sep '12
Location: Romania
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 1052
REALLY ??? FOLD WITH AA AFTER RAISE :| SERRIOUSLY ? ARE YOU ENSANE ? If you don't want to play... just fold... no call no raise... i really can't understand what you want ? what you think they have when you fold ? pair of JOKERS ? if you goes all in pre-flop your stake was higher and you could finish best than 12th place... NEVER DO THIS AGAIN
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
I guess it depends what your aim is. If you just want to cash then I guess you can fold but if you're going for a win then you should always call with AA. You would no doubt catapult to first after winning that hand. Yes sometimes aces lose and that would be a sick way to go but even against three other pairs you are still more than 50% to win the hand. As long as you would have use from having a massive stack you are far better off calling although you don't give us relative chip stacks.
Joined: Dec '10
Location: Finland
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 429
Posted by thefly131:
Remember with AA headsup you will win about 80% , with 3 the % lowers to 65% and with 4 even to 50%
that might be true but then with 4 players, you would get a quadruple stack in 50% of the times you go all in...
But when you're playing a satellite tournament it's sometimes OK to fold pocket aces if there are lots of short stacks and your enemy has bigger stack than you..You might just wanna wait till the shortstacks lose... Since in satellites it doesnt matter if you are the first on 10th in chips if 20 get the ticket..
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 55 (M)
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Posted by Doarulle: REALLY ??? FOLD WITH AA AFTER RAISE :| SERRIOUSLY ? ARE YOU ENSANE ? If you don't want to play... just fold... no call no raise... i really can't understand what you want ? what you think they have when you fold ? pair of JOKERS ? if you goes all in pre-flop your stake was higher and you could finish best than 12th place... NEVER DO THIS AGAIN
I guess you didn´t carefully read what he wrote regarding the reasons he did it. He explained why he did this and I can understand his reasons. Nevertheless I wouldn´t have done this, but thats my personal opinion.
Joined: Nov '11
Location: Poland
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1090
Always call with AA... imagine situation, that the player of the button hit Q and had QQQ and you will hit A and win pot with AAA... so with 4 of yours go all-in you will be BIGSTACK I think, and there is a big chance to win everything. Of course, everything is change when you think ONLY about cash... even 1c
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Awful fold. So so awful. Except if it's a satellite type game, or a DoN or some other weird form that distorts the ICM like that, you should NEVER fold AA pre flop. So bad, so so bad.
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1457
Statistically i disagree as you only have a chance of 50 % left to win the pot. Comparable when you play pocket pairs versus overpair you also have about 50 % chance to win.
eg pocket 55 vs AK
Personally I try to avoid multiple all-ins (risking my entire stack pre-flop) , only exception is when i am shortstack and even then I prefer to play vs 1 player
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
In this situation I think you should have gone to the game. If you wanted to fold because of getting to the prizes, you should have done the first moment you acted. This way, getting scared after making a bet and thinking your aces could send you home at that moment, you only lost chips, which is bad.
Joined: Jan '12
Location: Australia
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 155
Posted by thefly131: Statistically i disagree as you only have a chance of 50 % left to win the pot. Comparable when you play pocket pairs versus overpair you also have about 50 % chance to win.
eg pocket 55 vs AK
Personally I try to avoid multiple all-ins (risking my entire stack pre-flop) , only exception is when i am shortstack and even then I prefer to play vs 1 player
Its statistically a bad fold.
If you put AKs KKs QQs AAs into poker stove you still have 64% equity in the hand which is an easy call, and that is an extreme case. Since i assume you play at the Micros your villains collectively probably have even worse than this which means the number could sometimes be bigger. Therefore you have played this hand like a weak tight fish and it was a very bad play -Ev negative play on your part. Unless your playing a satellite where you can just fold your way to victory its a snap call.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Posted by Redvulture61: Its statistically a bad fold.
If you put AKs KKs QQs AAs into poker stove you still have 64% equity in the hand which is an easy call, and that is an extreme case. Since i assume you play at the Micros your villains collectively probably have even worse than this which means the number could sometimes be bigger. Therefore you have played this hand like a weak tight fish and it was a very bad play -Ev negative play on your part. Unless your playing a satellite where you can just fold your way to victory its a snap call.
Aces suited, now that would be an extreme case. It's not true that playing against worse hands means better odds. In fact the scenario you describe would be one of the best since AKs takes away an out and closer cards means less chance of a straight. I do agree though that in terms of ICM it's always going to be positive to play AA.
Joined: Jan '12
Location: Australia
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 155
Posted by awood88:
Posted by Redvulture61: Its statistically a bad fold.
If you put AKs KKs QQs AAs into poker stove you still have 64% equity in the hand which is an easy call, and that is an extreme case. Since i assume you play at the Micros your villains collectively probably have even worse than this which means the number could sometimes be bigger. Therefore you have played this hand like a weak tight fish and it was a very bad play -Ev negative play on your part. Unless your playing a satellite where you can just fold your way to victory its a snap call.
Aces suited, now that would be an extreme case. It's not true that playing against worse hands means better odds. In fact the scenario you describe would be one of the best since AKs takes away an out and closer cards means less chance of a straight. I do agree though that in terms of ICM it's always going to be positive to play AA.
Ok lets say your opponents had Ad4d Ac4c QdQh vs pocket aces. Even then you will have 61% equity and a chance of making a monster stack its a call.
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
His tactic just for win any prize, 20th position is ok ( maybe ? ). it's depend on bankroll, If have good enough bankroll and fold AA preflop I didn't agree. That action is very poor for me. we never know what card will we get after that. dead card for on hour is possibly ( I had a lot experience about that, just play defend with medium stake finally got nothing, play aggressive with poor stake - finally got prize ) we can't avoid luck factor.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Please dont tell yourself this was a good fold. This was such a horrible fold You had THE upportunity to become a very big stack even go for first, but you did not, you chickened out and you fold
Joined: Dec '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 707
Posted by doomdy: Please dont tell yourself this was a good fold. This was such a horrible fold You had THE upportunity to become a very big stack even go for first, but you did not, you chickened out and you fold
I am crying when i see this play
------------ Edit: Btw very good thread
he wouldnt have won though the QQ hit trips. in hindsight it was a brilliant fold. i think everyone would have called or shoved.but i understand that by not wanting to bust out around the bubble after your raise then shoves and calls etc. you just wanted to fold and get out of there.
again it would have needed to be a big prize to win to jusitify folding AA.what did you receive and what type of game was it?
everyone is going to say how bad it was but again it was actually a brilliant fold! even pros fold As when alot of players call allins etc.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by jessthehuman: Awful fold. So so awful. Except if it's a satellite type game, or a DoN or some other weird form that distorts the ICM like that, you should NEVER fold AA pre flop. So bad, so so bad.
That's pretty much the point I was going to make, but you beat me to it. There are very very few spots where it's mathmatically correct to fold AA, with the exception of these scenarios.
I remember a thread similar to this back on the FT forums, and it was basically unanimous that you should almost never fold aces. I mean if you can't get stacks in with AA pre, why the hell are you playing poker?
To OP all I can say is, you're using the fact that QQ sucked out with trips to justify your fold. This is being results oriented, and it's frankly not the right way to analyze your play. Like it was said, 4 way you're only 50% to win, but 50% of the time you quadruple up. XX% of the time you're busted out by the stack that has you covered, XX% of the time you lose to one of the lower stacks and don't bust but are crippled/short stack.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
For everyone who says ''good fold'', you dont have a clue
I did many times a preflop fold AA when i was playing tons off DoNs when the only thing what i wanted was getting itm where nr1 gets the same as nr5, also in satelites where every price is the same i can easily fold AA preflop, its even a no brainer for me. But not in a MTT where top prices are at fianl table or better top3 or better nr1, this spot was spot on to get you there but OP didnt
I like the thread, had no clue there are so many players who think this is good play
If you don't want to play... just fold... no call no raise... i really can't understand what you want ? what you think they have when you fold ? pair of JOKERS ? if you goes all in pre-flop your stake was higher and you could finish best than 12th place... NEVER DO THIS AGAIN 
