well < I must say that I have enjoyed the debate , now my position is that I like to think I have an open mind, but find it hard to believe in something that can not be tested by impirical scientific method, however that is me , you all make valid arguments but you must understand that when it comes to religion of whatever faith rational thought can leave the room and emotions can enter, this can lead to abuse ,violence and war, so I think certain parties should bury the hatchet and I dont mean in the other parties head, peace be with you poker hounds,,,as far as avatars are concerned which began the debate I say again as I did at the start the poker sites already look at them and wont allow offensive ones through, if 1 does slip through an email to the support team should resolve the issue whether or not it is offensive,, case closed????
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Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by kinogomes:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by kinogomes: I know many agnostic people and people that believes in somethnig but not in god. But no one have this kind of actitude like Jess haves, well maybe his lack of maturity can explain something. I say maybe cause i dont know him personally.
I used to be 'agnostic' like that kinogomes. Believe me, that was the immaturity. I keep saying it, to all of you, watch some Richard Dawkins.
I have readed many books about relligions, actually iam going to tell an inconfidence, when i was studying my dream was to be archeologist. I love all this kind of stuff about history, religions involved in the tribes, temples made to praise the gods. In my opinion its fascinating. This is not why i believe in god, i believe in god cause i borned in a traditional family and in a traditional comunity. I dont go everyweeks to the church, i go one time and another, and honestly when i go to the church i feel peace, sometimes is what i need, and i find it there. Peace for the spirit and for the mind. My religion is well known to make the biggest shits in all history, but iam no one to judje what they did, the only thing i can say is that i feel sorry. I dont follow asll the religion rulles, i follow some of them, the believe in god and in jesus Christ, and i think that cattolic church have still bad opinions about some things. I Accept that homosexuals can marry, i use condoms to have safier sex. The religion in my opinion is just a line where we can follow to guide us in somethings (mostly when we feel down because of a desease or when somebody dies), and the rest its just about us. We are the ones that make our own lifes and make the decisions, and we are free to decide. Few weeks ago i readed an interesting article saying that the people that follows more the religion usually lives more years, and have more peacefull lifes. Of course this is completely right because we see lots of people kiiling and dying because of it; but one thing i found interesting in the aspect that when i go to the church i feel more peace in my mind. Its not 1 hour per month that its going to take all my life.
You can be right in some aspects, but your intolerance in my opinion only make you loose and not win.
I think the truth about the relegion stays in the middle ( not everythnig its true, and not everything is a lie).
LOL
I thought i was going to wait more for yuo to show all your ...maturity.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
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Posted by kinogomes:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by kinogomes:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by kinogomes: I know many agnostic people and people that believes in somethnig but not in god. But no one have this kind of actitude like Jess haves, well maybe his lack of maturity can explain something. I say maybe cause i dont know him personally.
I used to be 'agnostic' like that kinogomes. Believe me, that was the immaturity. I keep saying it, to all of you, watch some Richard Dawkins.
I have readed many books about relligions, actually iam going to tell an inconfidence, when i was studying my dream was to be archeologist. I love all this kind of stuff about history, religions involved in the tribes, temples made to praise the gods. In my opinion its fascinating. This is not why i believe in god, i believe in god cause i borned in a traditional family and in a traditional comunity. I dont go everyweeks to the church, i go one time and another, and honestly when i go to the church i feel peace, sometimes is what i need, and i find it there. Peace for the spirit and for the mind. My religion is well known to make the biggest shits in all history, but iam no one to judje what they did, the only thing i can say is that i feel sorry. I dont follow asll the religion rulles, i follow some of them, the believe in god and in jesus Christ, and i think that cattolic church have still bad opinions about some things. I Accept that homosexuals can marry, i use condoms to have safier sex. The religion in my opinion is just a line where we can follow to guide us in somethings (mostly when we feel down because of a desease or when somebody dies), and the rest its just about us. We are the ones that make our own lifes and make the decisions, and we are free to decide. Few weeks ago i readed an interesting article saying that the people that follows more the religion usually lives more years, and have more peacefull lifes. Of course this is completely right because we see lots of people kiiling and dying because of it; but one thing i found interesting in the aspect that when i go to the church i feel more peace in my mind. Its not 1 hour per month that its going to take all my life.
You can be right in some aspects, but your intolerance in my opinion only make you loose and not win.
I think the truth about the relegion stays in the middle ( not everythnig its true, and not everything is a lie).
LOL
I thought i was going to wait more for yuo to show all your ...maturity.
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
Probably shouldn´t post on this....but I can´t resist. (You will notice in this post that I am not religious) Keep in mind that this is only my "opinion", right or wrong, and nothing more. I repeat...only my "opinion", which I have a right to...
Whenever Religion comes up, people start getting mad and insulting each other. Why?
Religion is not "sacred", but it´s interpretation as such makes for "extreme" opinions. Religion is a choice one makes...an "opinion", if you will. Nothing more. And everyone has a right to their opinion.
I am an avid fan of Comedians, and to the best Comedians in the world, there are no "Taboo" subjects. Why, because it is all viewed from a "humourous" perspective. Laughing with ourselves especially, is the best therapy in the world.
Race is NOT a choice, yet one of the funniest commedians I´ve seen makes fun of all races, especially his own (Russell Peters, American of Indian heritage). Black Commedians make fun of their "race" all the time. Examples are many. All commedians make fun of fat people (95% of fat people are so by "choice"- watch Ricky Gervais). - if that gets a bunch of reactions, watch Ricky Gervais "Out of England" before answering... Homosexuality is NOT a choice, yet comedy around the subject abounds, especially by gay people themselves.
What makes people really emotional EVERY TIME apparently, is talk about religion. Why?
Because the fundamental and only truth about religion is that it is Emotional. For those that are religious, you call it "Faith". And it is VERY emotional, because it is rooted within our deepest fear...Death. It´s as simple as that.
For those of you wondering, it is NOT related to intelligence (I´ve tested this with people having an IQ over 160, really). It is purely an Emotional entity, related to one´s experiences in life and our surroundings, be they factual or emotional.
Because it is so deeply rooted in an emotional need on one side, and a perception of it´s results in day to day life for those of us that do not believe (all the aforementioned stuff on Homosexuality, condom use, pedophiles in the Church etc.), this leads to extreme reactions from both sides.
So I am of the "opinion" that neither view is acceptable, simply because it IS "extreme". Everyone has a right to their opinion, and everyone has a right to make fun of it. Period.
On the other hand... When you are making fun of someone because of a physical deformity...you are threading on thin ice... When you are alluding that "slavery" is ok to a coloured person....you are threading on thin ice... When you are implying that homosexuality is a "disease" that should be eradicated...you are threading on thin ice... When you forbid the use of condoms to nations where overpopulation is a real and existing problem...you are an idiot.... Whem you are "forcing", "insisting", obliging" other people to follow your own views on life....you are wrong!
Yes, we can laugh with religion. Yes, we can laugh with homosexuality. Yes we can laugh with Black "clichés". Yes we can laugh with White "clichés. Yes, we can laugh...
That said, here is something I found yesterday: (yes, I thought it was funny)
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Posted by jovicakralj: Great post... I totally agree with you Island Jack. And attached image is funny but it is true also.
Glad the first reaction was a positive one. Thanks jovicakralj. I felt kind of stupid getting involved, but as the discussion got so heated, and it IS my opinion after all, why not?
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
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That's a good post Island Jack.
My main issue is this: you said yourself "Everyone has a right to their opinion, and everyone has a right to make fun of it."
OK - I agree, many people do only carry their religion as an opinion. But that's not that way it is overall, many people carry it as a FACT - and it simply isn't a fact and I will continue to dispute anyone who claims it is. It is a ridiculous opinion based on no evidence what-so-ever. That Flying Spagetti Monster link someone else posted illustrates how ridiculous it is.
As you said, being female, being black, being gay etc - is NOT a choice - it is a measurable fact.
Religion is a choice - and I have a serious problem with people CHOOSING to make s**t up and feed it into our social systems, legal systems, education systems, etc. I have a BIG problem with this. And it isn't just someone elses opinion and it is not OK - there is complete integration of Church & State in so many countries, even when it's in their legal system that church and state need to be separate.
There is no way I would stand down on this. It is NOT harmless opinion. People are making up crap and showing no evidence (empirical science) to back it up. And this random bulls**t is being used to oppress gay people, black people,women and so many other issues. It is fucking ridiculous.
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Posted by IslandJack:
Posted by jovicakralj: Great post... I totally agree with you Island Jack. And attached image is funny but it is true also.
Glad the first reaction was a positive one. Thanks jovicakralj. I felt kind of stupid getting involved, but as the discussion got so heated, and it IS my opinion after all, why not?
My reaction to your post is positive also. I just felt like fanning the fire a bit more, i dont give a s**t.
But yours was a great post, I use comedian analogies a lot also, they say a lot about our society IMHO. And I agree - for great comedians, no subject should be taboo.
Lovely picture also - but then- I was always gonna like that one
Edited by jessthehuman (30 January 2011 @ 22:41 GMT)
Joined: Oct '09
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@jess
Believe me, I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. I used to be a fervent "religion basher", and I will not concede an inch should anyone make the unfortunate mistake of wanting to discuss it with me and try to convince me that the Earth is only 6.000 years old... lol I´ve got rationale up the Kazoo on the subject.
Maybe it´s because I´m getting older (and I in NO WAY mean wiser, maybe just tired ), that I have given up on trying to explain the opression it can (and does) cause in so many ways.
The problem is IMO, people are people, and if it wasn´t for the ease of use of religion in all it´s many forms, it would just be something else. If not religion, it will be race. If not race, it will be language. If not language, it will be habits. If not habits, it will be whatever anyone can come up with to opress others, and make them feel better about themselves in comparisson. A sad truth of life.
I just don´t care anymore, as long as these things don´t touch me or anyone I love in a negative way. Then I will fight it.
Seems to be about the only thing you can do, be there for those around you. But Thank God (that´s a pun, by the way) that there are still enough people fighting these issues and others, otherwise it would be a sad world we live in, don´t you think?
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In my opinion Science doesnt explain everything, some scientiest are full s**t in the same way as some priest doesnt understand religion. Scientistsd sell us what they want to sell, and they fall like us, cause they are humans. Scientists sell us that we have been already in Moon, when we dont even understand 100% our planet. Trying to bash religion using science to compare its a fail in my opinion. Talking about Cristianism, some thing are already prooved other not, my religion fails in lot opf aspect, and iam not here to defend it. Its already proven that Jesus Christ was a real person and lived betwen Palestina and Israel. I found very irracional some actitud in some people. I know people that doesnt believe in god, but they believe in ufos. There are many religions and some of them, are not invoqued to god. Feel the religion in my opinion is a state of mind, yuou can acept it or not.
I critique the fundamentalism about the religion, i hate and i think muslims doesnt live theyr religion in the best way. But i found some agnostics as fundamentalists as muslim. I am happy Jessthehuman doesnt live in a muslim country, the war would be crazy for sure.
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@ Kinogomes - Once again - Just LOL
@ IslandJack - It's weird you know, you say about getting older, I've kinda gone the other way - I used to always turn a blind eye and favour keeping the peace and being polite.. And look - to be perfectly honest - IRL - I probably still do - but in the land of the internet - I am not afraid of getting punched in the head by some random religious psychopath.
But going back to my point, yeah - I used to be a lot more relaxed in attitude towards it, then the last 2-3 years really been reading/watching a lot of Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, etc - and they all promote militant atheism and explain very well why it's so important to do so. And they do make excellent points, like the "figures" for those of faith in most country exceed 90% of the population - but in actuality a great many of those would only identify themselves as such for convenience and fear of being ostracised. And I guess by being an outspoken atheist it goes a long way in helping others put their hand up as well.
Another major change for me was I used to identify as "agnostic" - and a LOT of atheists still do - it's easier - and less likely to get you into an argument. Richard Dawkins, once again, swayed me into just saying "atheist". It's a much better word and has a lot more bite to it. Time to stand up IMHO.
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kino you say there that some people believe in UFOs and not god as if they are crazy. im not really big on UFOs or nothing but to think that we are the only living thing in the galaxy or god knows how many other galaxy's well that just seems as crazy as there being a god. But then again if you believe in god i suppose you could believe that we are the only living things anywhere as we are the only people he made and built the rest of the world in 7 days lol. The reason i think religion is alot of crap as there are many of the main big religions that are all got the same fundamental things about them just little differences all the way back to through time before jesus and even before the dews. funny thing about christains is that it is so watered down these days its nothing like what it would of been but oh f**k it i cant be arsed going into this to deep and could go on forever
Edited by Flippedchips (31 January 2011 @ 00:51 GMT)
Joined: Apr '09
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Posted by kinogomes: I didnt said they are crazy, actually i believe in other form of life in other galaxy. For sure we are not alone. Just made comparasion.
LOL - comparing the chance of there being other life - in the literally BILLIONS upon TRILLIONS of other planets across suns & galaxies of this universe vs some made up crap about super-beings.
UFOs are a LOT less crazy.
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Posted by kinogomes: GO F**K YOUSELF SON OF A BITCH AND STOP THE DRUGS.
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Posts: 998
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by kinogomes: I didnt said they are crazy, actually i believe in other form of life in other galaxy. For sure we are not alone. Just made comparasion.
LOL - comparing the chance of there being other life - in the literally BILLIONS upon TRILLIONS of other planets across suns & galaxies of this universe vs some made up crap about super-beings.
UFOs are a LOT less crazy.
DUDE PLEASE IGNORE ME, AND IGNORE EVERYTHING I SAID. DONT EVEN BOTHER TO ANSWER TO ANY OF THE THREADS I CREATE. BETTER STAY LIKE THAT. FOR NOW ON, WHEN I ASK SOMEBODYS OPINION, THINK THAT I DONT GIVE A S**T ABOUT ANYTHING THAT YOU SAY, SO BETTER DONT EVEN BOTHER WITH MY THREADS.
lol, perhaps you two should agree to disagree and bury the hatchet as I said earlier ,lol,, like i said I enjoyed the debate but now you are just insulting each other wich is fine with me but doesnt improve the argument, anyway thats not why I am posting , i was just thinking on the number of posts this thread has provoked and not just the amount but the lenghth of these posts , I am impressed ,lol,, some of you can read and write without help,lol,lol,, ooops sorry, didnt mean to get to funny but cant help it, maybe it wont do any harm having a laugh anyway its getting a bit dark in here!
IslandJack
maybe it wont do any harm having a laugh anyway its getting a bit dark in here!
