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Posted by mazas: on the bubble situation u must play more clever and sometimes ak must be folded easy to stay at the game ant take some money was more important then ak calling i ll in this situation easy fold made and really be happy in my money position hope u ll learn your mistakes and next time u not be bubble boy D: good luck all and be happy
as i said above to another post
I really dont think you have read through this thread and listened to the reasons why the call was the correct choice, if you go with the mindset of fold this hand in this situation you will not win tournaments or finish in a position giving you a high ROI , the reasons for the call are well argued for in Dooms post in particular where he explains EV or exspected value , read Dooms posts then perhaps you will see the reasons why the call was good, playing for 3 hours and finishing on the bubble or close to it is like a slap in the face to me, only final table or top 3 make me happy ,,
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AK is a great hand, off course. And the SB push looks like a blind steal. But if you wait one orbit, you are in the money and you can wait for a better situation.
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Posted by arkstfan: Lol lemme make a recommendation. Don't even look at the lobby unless you want to know when to abuse the bubble and it's obvious if u don't beat this guy in the pot that you are not. All you need to know is that you want all the chips.
Honestly I'm at least raising if not shoving ur blind 20 bbs deep on the bubble bvb with almost 100 percent. I might even do it blind, it just depends on the dynamic. If you are folding Ak it is so insanely profitable it blows my mind. FYI KTs is a fist pump against alot of ppl I play against.
Some people don't understand the value of a hand like 46s bvb. Bad players fold so much, and even if they call you still have 30 percent equity almost always.
This this this and only this +1
So much dead money on the bubble.
Please please please dont ever fold AK in this spot, its so bad please
Please dont fold this and wait for better spot Thats so burning money omg please
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question to all of you who thinks AK should be folded..
if the small blind just called and didn't go all-in, what would have you done with your AK? i'm pretty sure a lot of you would've raised with it. the small blind will push for sure and i think you would have called anyways...like i said, the cards pretty much played for themselves in this situation.
our friend just lost the race that why it's too easy to justify that a fold would've been the right move.
Joined: May '08
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Cmon people, serios you cant fold AK here Thats not poker thats so bad I cant believe so many players say fold is an option Its just standard poker, instant call, if you look at your cards in this spot you must be so happy anybody goes allin so you can also fistpump your chips.
Omg so many players say fold is an option, thats so bad
------------ Couple of players say AK is not even a pair not putting my tourney life on stake with AK i wait for better spot How much better spot you want Wtf
Just fistpump, if you loose no problem just play a new MTT, all our life doesnt stand on only this MTT If we win we are top5 maybe even top3, there is were the money is not in a min cash ffs
Please people try to understand if your folding AK in this spot your absolutely never ever gonna make it as a poker player
Joined: Jan '11
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No, on the bubble with a large enough stack you want to make sure you cash first. Unless you had AA its a fold. Depending on the amount to call KK might even be a fold at that point in the tournament for all you stack.
You cant compare that and this AK. This was on 11$ tourney where people play more seriously and where are much better players! On freeroll (even final table) you can see lot of guys risking all chips with A10,KJ,KQ even suited connectors!
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Posted by doomdy: Standard call, bubble or not it doesnt matter, play2win get u so much more profit in the long run versus play2cash. 100% call, even with less, AQ instant call, even AJ might be callable here. Players are far to tight during the bubble. Winning this flip make u top5 maybe even top3, there is the money, there is no money at the bubble. If we bust no problem we then ust start up a new tourey and try again.
Play2win instant call no doubt.
As always, great post doomdy
EDIT: Finally read through the whole thread - I was curious as to how this went on for three pages. Doomdy man - next time be sure to include "/thread" at the end of your post
Edited by jessthehuman (10 February 2011 @ 23:05 GMT)
Posted by jovicakralj: Not only to survive! To survive until I get hand where I think Im favorite... There is big difference...
Spot on here.
Those who say its an instacall are living in cuckoo land.
Its not like you are short stacked and your entire tournament life depends on the result of that hand. If you let it go there is nothing to say you won't get a double up in a hand or two.
Some people are talking about Pros and what they would do. There isnt a pro on this planet would have made that call putting their tournament life on the line with effectively Ace high when there was absolutely no need to.
Pros pick their spots, and they are experts at it. They know when its sensible to call and when it isn't. Any pro looking at that situation would have folded instantly.
why ?
Firstly, the SB is very unlikely to have committed everything, that close to the bubble on a marginal hand. He had to have something strong. AK is ACE HIGH.. thats all it is. You are relying on hitting one of 6 cards in the pack, even if you are up against 2-2...
Secondly when you have hands like AK you want to be the one putting the pressure on. If he'd raised pre flop, yes, go over the top and make him think. But this wasnt a raise. he was prepared to risk everything pre flop and all the pressure was on you. You couldn't scare him away by re-raising because he was prepared to risk everything anyway. Thats not the position you want to be in.
You want to be the one putting your chips in first and making them think whether they want to risk everything. You most certainly do not want to be the one looking at Ace high and wondering should you call for your tournament life..
That close to the money, with no real need to call, that is an instafold, and anyone who says othewise seriously needs their heads reading.
And in response to those that say they are playing to win.. Calling there actually is EXACTLY the wrong thing to do if that is your strategy, because you are calling when you are behind and are actually a favourite to lose against any pair. Thats not playing to win, thats playing to get lucky... and there isnt a poker pro on this planet who follows that line of thinking.. They work out how likely they are to win and act accordingly. In that situation any pro worth their salt would know that they are going to lose more often than they win and get rid of those cards sharpish.
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Posted by fcumred: Some people are talking about Pros and what they would do. There isnt a pro on this planet would have made that call putting their tournament life on the line with effectively Ace high when there was absolutely no need to.
Nope wrong mate sry to say.
First of all there are not so much 20BB shoves from SB into BB at pro players, pros mostly put in a normal raise, but in this case its a 20BB shove and a very easy call with AK.
Every pro wud call here if they dont they are simply not pros. I still absolutely cant believe people even consider fold here, its either totally scared money they play with or they are totally not intrested in money
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Posted by dozn01: well me myself would of folded............ reason because you wernt in the money yet and only afew more players to go out b4 your in , and i wont of put my tourney life on a coin flip when your so close to cash in, if i was in the money instant call,
i didnt think you are the kind of player who is running for mincashes.
In my eyes the situation ist standart. SB has only few chips left and has a wide range to push (if it was QQ or 22 doesnt matter anyway ) and AK is the hand to call with. He might even show you some weak aces for blindstealing or something.
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Well not with 20BB but with 12/14BB i push with a lot of hands if i get the spot. If i am SB and folded to me i push evry pair 22+, hands like Q9s A-rag K6s stuff like that i push no doubt, so if some1 pushing me from SB with 20BB and i have AK on BB there is no way i gonna fold, i really dont know why i shud fold that, i want to make money so i fold If i win i am very deep, if i loose i am out so wot? I just play a new 1. We are flipping at worst here so easy call, very easy call, no-brainer.
Why play so scared, if you do good MTT bankrollmanagement (200buyins), its just/only 1 buyin, if we min cash we win 2 buyin minus 1 buyin allready payed so profit 1 buyin. If we make Final Table or even better top3 or ship it we make 5 buyins, 20 buyins or 100+ buyins. So offcourse we risk AK to go deep, what do we risk? Just 1 buyin? I dont even care if i loose its just 1 buyin People who fold here have totally scared money sry to say its such an easy call.
77% say call ,, in this case the call didnt pay but it was still the correct play, I for one again will say I would rather take my chance with AK to double up than worry about the bubble or cashing low,,,
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Posted by jovicakralj: It doesnt mean that you gonna be min cash if you fold that sort of hands. If you had good stack and guy before you goes all in then you had to know that he have a pair. Probably better then TT. In MTT tourneys in situations where is very dangerous to play (close to cash) people like to go all in on QQ KK JJ even TT to rid themselves of responsibility. And if your read was that he had exactly that there is no way that you should call that. That is coin flip even he is small favorite, so why to risk to be busted on bubble? If that guy had half of your chip stack I would say that was good call but this...I think it was bad call...
I think you had to fold, even if he had a medium or littla pair. He gave you opportunity to understand what he had: top pair and butterflies in stomach
How much better spot you want 
