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Joined: Dec '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 107
Don't have to go check on sharkscope ....I take your word for it
How many tourneys have you played to get a few k profit?
------------ So out of the years you played online you only have a profit of 2-3 k , you seem quite a clever person who probably knows how to play good poker and yet you only profited by 2-3 k.
Do you play live ? And if so how much have you won live
------------ My live winning are way above 2-3 k ....not sure exactly how much but its over 3k
And for a fact I've not played anywhere near the amount games you have online
------------ Right sorry 8 k didn't read it correct
Still not that good is it really
------------ Then only site you have profited on just happens to be the only site I've never tried
------------ How come you can't seen to profit on ft&ps 888 or.partypoker
Edited by my_bankroll (20 February 2013 @ 14:47 GMT)
Joined: Jan '13
Location: Ukraine
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 115
hey kingfisha If everything you say is true is it worth to play poker at all?Anyone can cheat who have some more information and access to structures which regulate poker sites.You say it is unfair but you are still playing.You play for fun or another reason.Anyway was interesting to read
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by my_bankroll: How many tourneys have you played to get a few k profit? So out of the years you played online you only have a profit of 2-3 k , you seem quite a clever person who probably knows how to play good poker and yet you only profited by 2-3 k.
Yeah - it's not a lot for a few years, but then again - a lot of people play this long and LOSE money. I don't play professionally, just for fun and I make some money as well, so it's not bad for a hobby and definitely ahead of the curve in terms of the % of players that are losers.
A lot of those games are SNG - I think the profit comes from around 2k MTTs, my SNG i think is slightly under (losing) due to tilt-playing HU SNGs for $100 $200 etc.
I probably could do better if I had the discipline, but I'm pretty degen, so I generally don't keep that much online and don't try and build big super bankrolls or anything, just stick to the mid-stakes stuff, enjoy more hobby and make a little money.
Posted by my_bankroll: Still not that good is it really
Depends how you look at it really :/ it's a lot better than anyone who's a losing player.. And not bad for having a bit of fun, for example some people play World of Warcraft or Call of Duty or whatever and it costs them money, I enjoy playing poker and I make money!
Posted by my_bankroll: How come you can't seen to profit on ft&ps 888 or.partypoker
Because I play on PKR - the reason 90% of my play is on a single site is because of deals.. I get a flat 30% rakeback at PKR, plus frequent reload bonuses plus my VIP level is Platinum (2nd highest VIP) and I am 90% to Diamond (highest) which means I get extra rewards - like value added MTTs + xmas and Bday presents.
If I played across many sites, I'd never maintain a good VIP level anywhere or be able to clear reload bonuses, etc. So it's more profitable to stick to one site.. And I chose PKR - I like it there and have made friends, etc.
Posted by my_bankroll: Do you play live ? And if so how much have you won live
My total live winnings would be under $500
I used to play a LOT of live poker, before I started online.. But it was basically just pub league games mostly - so I'd win venue vouchers, drink cards, etc - it was mostly for fun.
I've put in a few casino sessions and some other cash games, but nothing significant / substantial.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by my_bankroll: Yeah I suppose your right when I think about it its very good to have 8k profit even if you played for years
True, btw my combined SNG/MTT profit on that SS graph isnt 8k, its about 12.5K and there's about another 6-7K in RB + bonuses + ring game winnings
edit: if it is showing only 8k for you, check its probably in Euro or pound or something..
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Posted by my_bankroll:
Interesting that that the only site I never played on is the one that you have made good profit.
Maybe I'll try �50 see how it goes
I recommend having a crack, its a really good site, great community, great customer service, pretty soft player base, etc. Only problem is traffic is fairly low, but its ok, especially fine for micro-small stakes
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 63 (F)
Posts: 589
HI jess, you seem to be very aware of the information and tools needed to be a winning online poker player, up until my 1300 cash out from stars a few weeks ago, I was a losing player off and on for around 2yrs since I started playing online poker, around -500 or so in total deposits with out ever cashing out, I am lucky to say now I am a winning player, ya lucky, but since I really wanna make it as a decent online player I really have to invest some time to fully understand the online game as much as you seem too,
Joined: May '08
Location: Canada
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1017
online poker is always rigged,when we lose,but when we start winning we forget,about poker being rigged,888 is bye far one of the best rooms out there,at least you get paid properly,same old,blahhh....it would seem you see and read posts like this all the time,usually from players who haven't figured out that,if you believe online poker is rigged,STAY AWAY FROM THE ONLINE GAME!
Joined: Mar '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 83
And still the questions remain unanswered !!! 1- Why do poker sites regulate themselves ????? 2 - Why do they base themselves offshore ??? 3- Why wont they allow independant audit of their sites ??? It amazes me that people cant answer these questions ! all you come back with is insults Why would a winning player like myself think things are not right at 888 ??? eCOGRA even admit on the site that they will no say the games are fair 100% of the time !! FACT - read it on 888s own site - these are the very same people appointed and paid by 888 4 - who do you think pays for sites like BRM ?? its the poker sites ! Why will things never change ??? - because no one regulates online poker ! no one really cares about other peoples claims !! and it would be nearly impossible to uncover and prove what was going on !! The scandal at ultimate bet was only discovered after a number of players got together and discussed hands ! - still they couldnt prove any wrong doing !! It was only found out what was going on when an inside employee ACCIDENTLY sent hand histories to the players concerned ! You see without independant auditing the online sites can do what they like and people can do nothing about it
------------ As I thought - no one can answer these questions - because the facts are there for all to see !! Online poker is a self regulated business where they can do what ever they want !!!! AND THEY DO !
Edited by kingfisha (21 February 2013 @ 11:21 GMT)
Joined: Mar '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 83
gmgm - you start this thread and i give you all these facts about 888poker !! I log in today and see you have started another thread about 888poker - they log you out in the middle of a tournament ! Why do i waste my time posting facts on this rigged site when people like you just ignore them and carryy on playing You only have yourself to blame ! Read the facts ,withdraw your money and delete your account - its simple no more crying !
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by kingfisha: Why do i waste my time posting facts on this rigged site when people like you just ignore them and carryy on playing You only have yourself to blame ! Read the facts ,withdraw your money and delete your account - its simple no more crying !
Haha - this is classc behaviour, obviously not yourself, but people who accuse sites of being fixed often continue to play on them. It's bizarre, but very common.
Anyway, as I wrote in that other thread - I haven't forgotten to reply here, I just want to do it properly, so I need to learn what I can regarding eCOGRA and the other licensing commissions. If you want to supply any links to support your argument, that I can rebuff, then by all means do so. Be sure I will be asking for them when I question some of what you've written.
Joined: Mar '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 83
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECOGRA - as you can see it is a self regulatory service for online gaming I am specifically talking about 888poker and not other sites - as i dont have all the facts on other sites ! eCOGRA was originally set up by 888 and microgaming as the number of people using online gambling was falling due to lack of confidence in the fairness of the sites It is now supposedly run independently -( by the same people ) after complaints about its links with the big sites. It is entirely funded by the money it receives from the casinos and poker operators No site has ever been given the eCOGRA seal the 1st time it applied for it - and no site has been shut down because of eCOGRA !!! it guides them towards best practice !!! http://www.ecogra.org/certificates/poker.aspx?cid=194 as you can see from their own admission that they wont say the games are 100% fair and compliant all the time http://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/remotegambling - this is shown on 888s site although it looks like only fixed odds games and casino have been covered by this gaming commission !!! I am also going off my own experiences from 888poker ! you will win when you 1st join and then slowly but surely ( especially after withdrawing ) you will lose everything and no hand will hold up regardless of odds ! The rng is a complete joke - anything but random I suggest people make up their own minds about this site - i will just tell you the facts and my experiences . Maybe its because i am a winning player ?? Maybe because i withdrew my winnings ?? who knows ! but i do know things are not right at 888 . I havent even gone into details about their software problems - bb 3 times in a row at the same table in a tournament or the way they have different rates for depositing and withdrawing so you lose money through exchange rates !!! It would be interesting if some or all of these questions could be answered ! Good luck at the tables - (JUST NOT ON 888)
Joined: Mar '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 83
Posted by IceQueenAce: regarding bb three times, contact support and ask for buyin back and they will credit it
I did contact their support and was told it would be looked into !! - i gave them all hand histories but after a week had heard nothing !! I contacted them again and was told that the technical department was looking into it and i would get a reply within 24hrs After still no reply i contacted them again telling them that there customer support was terrible and they didnt value their players ! I did get a reply - telling me that this was not a customer support issue - it was a technical issue !! WTF ! They still didnt answer my questions - so i gave up - just like most people do ! Like i said they do what they like being self regulated !
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by my_bankroll: He won't answer because he's the type of guy who think he's right about everything and other people's opinions are always wrong
His heads so far up his own arse its unreal
And he's a losing player on every site that we consider rigged
I will answer
------------
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by my_bankroll: He won't answer because he's the type of guy who think he's right about everything and other people's opinions are always wrong
His heads so far up his own arse its unreal
And he's a losing player on every site that we consider rigged
I will answer
For what it's worth, I completely agree with him regarding regulation and online poker: It's a shambles and you only have to look at not only the major scandals like UB/AP Super-user scandal and the shambles that was FTP. But look at all the minor stuff as well: The amount of times peoples bankrolls have been withheld / confiscated by poker rooms on very flimsy grounds and the players have very little (legal) recourse. About all anyone can do is hope to get some attention posting on 2 + 2.
However - i do dispute rigging the RNG, simply because my understanding of probability and mathematics suggests to me it is a pointless and harmful thing for a poker site to do, put simply: there are better ways of cheating. What is more - it is something that can be more or less proven by collecting large samples of hand history, which is why it upsets me when people claim a rigged RNG without providing this particular evidence. This is all that is required to state a legitimate case and as far as I am aware, in the history of online poker sites, no one has yet submitted a large sample of HH that indicates a flawed RNG. It's just not a good way to cheat because it shows up as a statistical anomaly to quickly and too easily; there is no way to hide it.
But I will answer each question specifically, I think I probably tend to agree with a lot of what kingfisha has to say to be honest, I have no doubt there is a tonne of corruption and cheating, involving those at the top of the food chain and for the reasons Kingfisha points out. I just don't think a rigged RNG is one of those things, there are better ways for white-collar criminals to steal your money, like what FTP was doing - that sort of thing is where I would put my money. A fixed RNG would simply be discovered and not by a conspiracy minority: but by the sharks at the top who DO monitor all of their HH and WOULD pick up on something like this.
------------ My_Bankroll: You're just a right-ring, racist, lying idiot and you're not helping his cause by jumping in. Kingfisha has supplied links to his argument and I respect that, you I don't respect, you're just an a*****e and most likely a troll.
------------
Posted by my_bankroll:
And he's a losing player on every site that we consider rigged
Not exactly sure what you're getting at with this statement, but there are only two poker sites I've ever deposited on: PKR and Poker Stars, anywhere else that you have looked up my user name, is just a case of busting a No Deposit Bonus, most likely with no intention of ever attempting to withdraw anything. So technically yes: I'm not a winner on any of those sites, but the sample size in ALL of those case is absolutely tiny and no attempt was ever made to play serious bankroll-building poker.
Edited by jessthehuman (24 February 2013 @ 00:22 GMT)
Joined: Mar '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 83
I dont think any poker site would be stupid enough to rig the rng all the time ! Can it be done player specific ??? who knows ??? The regulator ??? I dont see why a poker site would want winning players on their site ! Apart from rake what else would a winning player give to the site ??? A donkey or a fish would probably generate more rake by playing more and weaker hands ! They would also have to deposit when they lost there roll ! Like i said it would be nearly impossible to prove anything against these sites as they are self regulated and no one would believe single players claims with less than 1 million hands
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by kingfisha: I dont see why a poker site would want winning players on their site ! Apart from rake what else would a winning player give to the site ???
they need both, it is an interesting topic though. Winning players obviously withdraw money out of the virtual economy / poker site. However - losing players may deposit $100 and lose it so quick the site is lucky to rake $2. Winning players / regulars create the environment, without them tables wouldn't start or fill and what is more, losing players would have nothing to aspire to.. Why would anyone delude themselves into re-depositing if there were no winning players telling of their withdrawals? The losers would never come back if there weren't winners.
I think ideally what a poker site would want is a whole bunch of break-even reg's, basically just sharing around the money and never really profiting, just slowly paying out the rake.
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Posted by kingfisha: They would also have to deposit when they lost there roll !
This doesn't inherently gain the poker site any money, since they only gain from rake paid: obviously sites encourage somebody to deposit to pump more money into the economy of their site. But realistically a break-even reg depositing $100 and making it last a few months (playing every day) rakes a hell of a lot more than a donkey who deposit $1000 and loses it in a couple hours and then repeats this 5 times (losing $5,000).
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Posted by kingfisha:
I havent even gone into details about their software problems - bb 3 times in a row at the same table in a tournament
Yeah - I had an account on 888 years ago, before any other online account actually - because they gave us a free no deposit through a pub-league I played in. The software was awful, I didn't understand how anyone could play on it. It was buggy/glitchy and full of s**t like that. I uninstalled it and never looked back. Although I had heard it's a lot better now
Posted by kingfisha:
or the way they have different rates for depositing and withdrawing so you lose money through exchange rates !!!
I can tell you why this is, PKR do this too. The reason is pretty simple: To encourage you to deposit the poker site 'eats' the conversion fee, effectively giving you your whole deposit, but to discourage your from withdrawing, they let you wear it. Effectively meaning if you deposit $100 and then withdraw it again, immediately - you'll end up at a loss.
Some sites, such as Poker Stars - will 'eat' the conversation fee for withdrawals as well as deposits, some smaller sites will pass it on to the user in both cases. But for most small/medium sites, they wear it for the deposits, to encourage those and they let you wear it when you withdraw.
Edited by jessthehuman (24 February 2013 @ 01:07 GMT)
or the way they have different rates for depositing and withdrawing so you lose money through exchange rates !!!
