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POKER PLAYERS: lUCKY VS KNOWLEDGE
 

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  17-Jan-11, 23:14   #21
  0 
Hajinnho 

Joined: Jan '10
Location: Germany
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1379
Posted by kinogomes:
First of all guys i dont want to turn this thread into another bad beat/whining thread.

I look at my historic of poker and after 3 years i dont see any improove in my game. Well my game has improoved but i keep getting such crazy beats like the first day. When i started to play i looked into the game and i called crap most of the times and i got punished for that almost all time. Then i decided well, lets read some books and start to make thing right.
Unfortunately doesnt work for me, i dont know what wrong witth me i just get beated in the biggest hands. I dont blame the sites because it happens to me in all sites i play. I know i tilt alot wich gaved me crazy downswings untill bust all my roll.

Maybe my problem is not that i dont understand about the game, maybe iam just an unlucky player. Living my life most of times afraid to make big decisions, maybe afects in my game, because i feel most of times that i say "here we go the river again" and then the river comes to f**k me up. I need to think positive in my game, but most of times iam playing think that some donkey will trap me as always.

What do you think about my situaction? In your opinion wich afects more the game??? Lucky?? Knowledg????

You decide.


On the long term, as an cash game or sng player, only knowledge matters. But if you really are looking for the big snap, those "once in a life opportunities" where you ship thousands of dollars at once, honestly, you need more luck than you can think of.

     
  18-Jan-11, 00:00   #22
  0 
watoba 
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 696
knowledge u must find your style to be a winning player. I play now maybe 10 years but only the last 3 years i think i can say i´m a good amateur and you must play live is my opion.I start as a online player but 1 year live game make me better as 3 years online.The last 2 month of the last years i get suck out after suck out and go out from 30 tourney´s without money and many time´s a few place before i get money.But these month i get from 12 tourney´s 5 times money with one 1.place.And got a very good sng stat these month
poker is up and down when you had a good BRM you can lost many buy in´s before you go broke.
Maybe you got 50$ you must play 1$ sng or tourney´s.I know is not nice to play these low limits.
you money grow slow when you play 1$ sng´s and no tourney´s but better slow as broke Blink

     
  18-Jan-11, 00:15   #23
  0 
mahdrof 

Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 2386
Posted by JeVoOo:
OP if you want to get better and are totally serious about it, get a coach. It's obvious you have leaks that need fixing and no amount of posts from the good people here at bankrollmob are going to fix them. The games are evolving everyday, and you need to evolve with them.

All this talk about +ev play is laughable imo as it's clear you don't totally understand the concept and I doubt most here do. ABC poker will not get you anywhere anymore as better players will exploit you.

To be a winning player you need to actually play the game and make sure your strategy is solid vs different player types. Too many people think they can play standard poker and be winning but the fact is, the games are harder now than they ever were and if you cant adjust you may as well be burning money.

/rant


Agreed as well, however I would still be careful about how many times you enter a hand as -EV versus your opponents. I think you need to blend ABC poker with playing the game, and to varying amounts, and keep your opponents guessing.

     
  18-Jan-11, 00:29   #24
  0 
jovicakralj 

Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by kinogomes:

How can we talk about +EV hands when i make a deposit of 100 bucks, play 4 tables nl10 and in 300 hands session i receive 3 AA 3 KK and 3 QQ. If i re raise AA pre flop and nobody calls i win nothing, if i get called and i get caught by the fflop cards iam runing in -EV. Lets put the example that nobody calls you in 3, and you called other 3 times and with your agression you win few bucks, and you get called other 3 times and with your agression you get called and beated. In the long run this is -EV.
ABC poker is useless right now cause the blinds will being eating up your coins if your waiting for the big guns. As soon as you receive them, everybody folds you cause they already now they are playing against a super tight player.
Making the % of the maximum i can win with AA and the maximum i can loose with the same hand, most of the times i loose more than what i win. Talking about in the EV long run its only possible if your getting paid at maximum every time you get big guns, because most of the times you end wining almost anything.



I really think now that youre biggest problem is Bankroll management. You play on limits that you dont feel comfortable to play on and you are too much scared so you probably dont defend youre hand with strong bet as you should. Also you need to play tight but that doesnt mean that you should fold suited connectors or small pocket pairs or cards that you "feel" when is cheap to see flop. GL Blink

------------
And I dont think that taking a coach is good idea! You need to find youre own style! Forget all books, posts... just remember everything that works out in youre game and try to play like you Blink

Edited by jovicakralj (18 January 2011 @ 00:33 GMT)


     
  18-Jan-11, 00:39   #25
  0 
cjvfruity 

Joined: Dec '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 272
I am a noob to poker, I have never read any books for advice, just browsed websites for the basics, and a few tips.. I would say luck is indeed important! but I also believe you make most of your luck by playing your hands well. You will also find most of your bad luck when you play hands badly, the problem I think, is when you start to think you are on a bad run, you believe you are playing badly, and start to change the way you play.

One BIG thing I think that gets in players heads, is they will always remember all those bad beats, but somewhat forget all the times they won big with the best hands! Thats just human nature though Smile

     
  18-Jan-11, 00:49   #26
  -1 
jevo 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1086
Ignore jovicakralj's last comment, never have I heard such bs - your own style isn't working out for you, fact.

Coaching is not out the question imo, I know a few NL10/25 grinders that have regular coaching and are crushing the games at FT and PS, which are the hardest place to play those limits, and they do this for a living!

A lot of coaches now are offering profit sharing deals, so if you're not making anything at the moment, what have you got to lose? The Market Place at a certain, well known, webiste is full of coaches wanting students.

No one got anywhere by whining about not making money whilst not doing anything about it, ACT.

     
  18-Jan-11, 01:02   #27
  0 
jovicakralj 

Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by JeVoOo:
Ignore jovicakralj's last comment, never have I heard such bs - your own style isn't working out for you, fact.

Coaching is not out the question imo, I know a few NL10/25 grinders that have regular coaching and are crushing the games at FT and PS, which are the hardest place to play those limits, and they do this for a living!

A lot of coaches now are offering profit sharing deals, so if you're not making anything at the moment, what have you got to lose? The Market Place at a certain, well known, webiste is full of coaches wanting students.

No one got anywhere by whining about not making money whilst not doing anything about it, ACT.

Who are you to say that he need to ignore my comment??? Shock

     
  18-Jan-11, 01:56   #28
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 6482
LOL @ Poll results - Bingo players are ruining the game -HAHAHA - no - bingo players are what makes poker a profitable game.. They MAKE the game.

     
  18-Jan-11, 02:21   #29
  0 
jevo 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1086
Posted by jovicakralj:
Posted by JeVoOo:
Ignore jovicakralj's last comment, never have I heard such bs - your own style isn't working out for you, fact.

Coaching is not out the question imo, I know a few NL10/25 grinders that have regular coaching and are crushing the games at FT and PS, which are the hardest place to play those limits, and they do this for a living!

A lot of coaches now are offering profit sharing deals, so if you're not making anything at the moment, what have you got to lose? The Market Place at a certain, well known, webiste is full of coaches wanting students.

No one got anywhere by whining about not making money whilst not doing anything about it, ACT.

Who are you to say that he need to ignore my comment??? Shock


I'm no one, but if you give really bad advice, expect to be called out on it.

     
  18-Jan-11, 02:47   #30
  0 
dule-vu 

Joined: May '09
Location: Croatia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 8767
in todays online poker first you have to have luck and thats very important and then knowledge!you must have luck,when donk pay 4 3 againts yours AK and then you must think will he get 4 or somethin to better then you!

     
  18-Jan-11, 03:08   #31
  0 
watoba 
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 696
books and training videos are standart.I don´t have read books but i´ve see a lot of video´s but i know people that read book´s and they playing better after that.Book´s and video is good to learn the basic´s and get tips.But coaching i think is not a good idea talk with your friends is coaching enough i think.And the best way to get better is PLAY,PLAY,PLAY and look for your mistake´s.I think about my hands how have i played it was it right,wrong,analyse your game is the best way.Maybe make a video from your games to analyse it.

@ dule-vu AK os vs 34 suited is 60 :40 is not a donk play when you not call a allin with that both suited is +/- 2%

and kingocomes maybe 4 tables is to much for you i play the most times 2 maybe 3 sometimes 4 but not often and cashgame online is not my favourite,maybe try sng´s and low limit tourney´s maybe thats work better for you.My example for these month i deposit 50$ and strikly Bankrollmanagent play only 1$ sng and sometimes 1$ tourney´s have cashout 160$ and 112$ on my account now start today with 108$ 4$ win these day in 5 hours.I play the most times now 1$ buy ins again sometimes play 2$ or 3$ when i reach 90$ then only again 1$.I know 4$ win a day is not much but 30 days 4$ per day is 120$ end of the month.And one big tourney win you got many dollars more.And the last years i win minimun one tourney a year between 650-2500$.But for me is online only training so thats is good that i payed for my training.When i play higher limits then only live but thats is my way

Edited by watoba (18 January 2011 @ 04:07 GMT)


     
  18-Jan-11, 08:52   #32
  0 
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 6197
I really dont understand how you can say to a player that dont make profit to go play ''out of the box'' and dont play ABC, i can only imagine he will loose more money with not ABC poker.

     
  18-Jan-11, 09:28   #33
  0 
todd3311 

Joined: Aug '09
Location: Canada
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 147
i can relate to what you were going thur,i was haveing the same problem,and i was seeing myself csalling most hands because in my head i seen the flop and it was costing me a ton of money to see,but after loseing most pots i decided to get smart and learn to play and when to call with what hands,and it did pay out big time,also just when you think everytbody plays like you there are of ton of players that call everything,

     
  18-Jan-11, 09:31   #34
  0 
jevo 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1086
doomdy Smile hey bud

I think the point is, that he's possibly already playing ABC and it's not working. Obviously no-one knows that for sure, he could be straight up overplaying hands.


     
  18-Jan-11, 10:08   #35
  0 
DaMessiah666 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Spain
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1487
Posted by dule-vu:
in todays online poker first you have to have luck and thats very important and then knowledge!you must have luck,when donk pay 4 3 againts yours AK and then you must think will he get 4 or somethin to better then you!

Don't agree. You might lose this hand but you are being playing with EV+. It's a good choice, no matter what it's the result. This is the clue of profitable poker. As soon as it's been understood, as soon u will win Blink

     
  18-Jan-11, 10:13   #36
  0 
jovicakralj 

Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by JeVoOo:
Posted by jovicakralj:
Posted by JeVoOo:
Ignore jovicakralj's last comment, never have I heard such bs - your own style isn't working out for you, fact.

Coaching is not out the question imo, I know a few NL10/25 grinders that have regular coaching and are crushing the games at FT and PS, which are the hardest place to play those limits, and they do this for a living!

A lot of coaches now are offering profit sharing deals, so if you're not making anything at the moment, what have you got to lose? The Market Place at a certain, well known, webiste is full of coaches wanting students.

No one got anywhere by whining about not making money whilst not doing anything about it, ACT.

Who are you to say that he need to ignore my comment??? Shock


I'm no one, but if you give really bad advice, expect to be called out on it.

You think that poker coach is good advice? That is trowing money! those poker couches if they are really that good they wouldnt couch, that would be losing time for them... Like those people selling betting advice instead putting money on their own bets Smile Doomdy play ABC poker and he is very profitable and you say that he isnt right??? Shock
Also here is one BIG thing: you must have brain playing ABC poker or not!
Club

     
  18-Jan-11, 13:14   #37
  0 
MANUEDO 
Joined: Apr '08
Location: Italy
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1955
I realized not to be able to play profitable after a couple of years but I keep on playing it, don't worry it's just a game Blink

     
  18-Jan-11, 13:21   #38
  0 
jevo 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1086
Posted by jovicakralj:
Posted by JeVoOo:
Posted by jovicakralj:
Posted by JeVoOo:
Ignore jovicakralj's last comment, never have I heard such bs - your own style isn't working out for you, fact.

Coaching is not out the question imo, I know a few NL10/25 grinders that have regular coaching and are crushing the games at FT and PS, which are the hardest place to play those limits, and they do this for a living!

A lot of coaches now are offering profit sharing deals, so if you're not making anything at the moment, what have you got to lose? The Market Place at a certain, well known, webiste is full of coaches wanting students.

No one got anywhere by whining about not making money whilst not doing anything about it, ACT.

Who are you to say that he need to ignore my comment??? Shock


I'm no one, but if you give really bad advice, expect to be called out on it.

You think that poker coach is good advice? That is trowing money! those poker couches if they are really that good they wouldnt couch, that would be losing time for them... Like those people selling betting advice instead putting money on their own bets Smile Doomdy play ABC poker and he is very profitable and you say that he isnt right??? Shock
Also here is one BIG thing: you must have brain playing ABC poker or not!
Club


Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.

     
  18-Jan-11, 14:29   #39
  0 
kinogomes 

Joined: Feb '10
Location: Portugal
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 998
Posted by MANUEDO:
I realized not to be able to play profitable after a couple of years but I keep on playing it, don't worry it's just a game Blink


If he lose time playing it to lose money its better dont play it. I am loosing money ta cash tables and i have someprofit at SNG mtt but in the end the cash tables are killing my profites. I feel i know the minimum to be at least break even and +Ev at sngs.

In my opinion i voted Lucky, poker is a game of lucky no matter what. You can be a pure amateur like Chris moneymaker but have the lucky to win a WSOP. If you tell me lucky is part of the game but the matter is knowledge, i answer you, i only know 1 player that his +EV is knowledge instead of lucky (Phil Ivey), the others is 60% lucky and 40% knowledge.

     
  18-Jan-11, 14:37   #40
  0 
jovicakralj 

Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by JeVoOo:
Posted by jovicakralj:
Posted by JeVoOo:
Posted by jovicakralj:
Posted by JeVoOo:
Ignore jovicakralj's last comment, never have I heard such bs - your own style isn't working out for you, fact.

Coaching is not out the question imo, I know a few NL10/25 grinders that have regular coaching and are crushing the games at FT and PS, which are the hardest place to play those limits, and they do this for a living!

A lot of coaches now are offering profit sharing deals, so if you're not making anything at the moment, what have you got to lose? The Market Place at a certain, well known, webiste is full of coaches wanting students.

No one got anywhere by whining about not making money whilst not doing anything about it, ACT.

Who are you to say that he need to ignore my comment??? Shock


I'm no one, but if you give really bad advice, expect to be called out on it.

You think that poker coach is good advice? That is trowing money! those poker couches if they are really that good they wouldnt couch, that would be losing time for them... Like those people selling betting advice instead putting money on their own bets Smile Doomdy play ABC poker and he is very profitable and you say that he isnt right??? Shock
Also here is one BIG thing: you must have brain playing ABC poker or not!
Club


Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.

Hmmmm, Im very interested are you profitable player... I talking from my experience, because things that I talk works for me... Maybe youre right, who knows...

------------
Posted by kinogomes:
Posted by MANUEDO:
I realized not to be able to play profitable after a couple of years but I keep on playing it, don't worry it's just a game Blink


If he lose time playing it to lose money its better dont play it. I am loosing money ta cash tables and i have someprofit at SNG mtt but in the end the cash tables are killing my profites. I feel i know the minimum to be at least break even and +Ev at sngs.

In my opinion i voted Lucky, poker is a game of lucky no matter what. You can be a pure amateur like Chris moneymaker but have the lucky to win a WSOP. If you tell me lucky is part of the game but the matter is knowledge, i answer you, i only know 1 player that his +EV is knowledge instead of lucky (Phil Ivey), the others is 60% lucky and 40% knowledge.

Like I sad earlier my friend, stop playing cash games, play thing that you are profitable at and that you feel comfortable to play... It is obvious that it isnt luck because you would have same results in sng like in cash... But anyway, GL to you Blink

Edited by jovicakralj (18 January 2011 @ 14:41 GMT)


     
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