First of, I am posting this via my girlfriends account as I like to be anonymous, I stopped the practice of poker botting, but poker sites have the tendency to put you on a black list if you where/are in someway related to botting.
I was in several botting developement projects, first FL later NLDSS. I know allot of you have questions regarding poker bots and I am willing to answer them and maybe get a discussion going. I hope answering these Q's will take some fear of the unknown away, and/or teaches human players ways to recognize , thus defend oneself against these bots. I quit botting because there was a disagreement in my latest project group, and the group leader decided to kick me out.
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
ok for starters 1. why does your girlfriend have an account as 25 M
2. what is NLDSS?
3. how much profit do people usually make using bots?
4. what makes bots susceptible to getting caught/ detected?
5. whats the number of bots on the major sites according to you ?
6. which is the best way to know u are playin against a bot?
7. Which is the best way to beat a bot?
8. which stakes/ games bots are most common?
9. how much money do the bot programmers make by selling bots?
10. how many times did u get caught? Did u ever get a legal notice etc from site?
11. Why are you doing this?
12. can bots send info like hole cards of users over net so that programmers can use it to their advantage? if yes, did u ever get involved in such a thing?
13. what would u prefer? playing by urself or let a bot do its work
14. whats the biggest " DO" and "DONT" while using bots?
15.Why did u join this project?
16. Are there bots in other online games too? if yes hav u participated in similar projects there?
17. and lastly do u have any feelings of guilt? if yes does it affect your life in any way?
thats all for now, more will follow depending on the responses/posts
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
After reading all of the questions that Supernoob did. im pretty much coverred if you answered them all. But as i started reading your post the first thing came up to my mind was noob's first question
Joined: Jun '11
Location: United Kingdom
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1)is this more of a find answers to what poker community's think and know so you can improve your bots to be more devious and cheat us not so good players out of our ????? 2)Ive been reading up on bots today and found out you also put time variance on bots to make them appear more human,do you think if your bots covering up to 16 tables at a time that poker sites wont suss you out?(oh wait it seems they cant) 3)are you one of the thieves that has put more than 1 bot at the same table and colluded so that the poor bastard at the table is just handing over his money without a chance in hell??? read a quote today that said"4 pros at a table with 4 newbies colluding will eventually lose" 4)Your birds a dude!!!!!!"
Joined: Dec '09
Location: United Kingdom
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tbh i dont give a crap about that long list of questions because its all about question 1 lmao did you not know or forget that it said your sex there fucking classic m8 classic
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Posted by Flippedchips: tbh i dont give a crap about that long list of questions because its all about question 1 lmao did you not know or forget that it said your sex there fucking classic m8 classic
LOL! Right after I have read first few words I looked and saw M hahahahhhaha Everyone noticed that
Joined: Jan '09
Location: Italy
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Posted by Flippedchips: tbh i dont give a crap about that long list of questions because its all about question 1 lmao did you not know or forget that it said your sex there fucking classic m8 classic
I am very intersted in reading OP answers ....I really don't care about Q 1 ...at least until I will know other answers ,then I could consider question 1 as well
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
I have a few questions.
1) How do you sleep at night 2) What is it like, not having a soul? 3) Is your mom ashamed of you? 4) Are you ashamed of yourself? 5) Why exactly did you feel it neccessary to cheat people out of money? 6) Why did you come here, and post a thinly veiled brag thread? Does it make you feel cool? 7) What's it like, being a 25 year old virgin? You say it's your girlfriends, yet you got busted. Why lie about having a gf? It's the interwebz dude, no-one gives a flying f$!@. 8) Do you think I'm cool?
Seriously, I nominate OP for a darwin award. You, sir, are pond scum. No wait, you're lower than pondscum. You're the pondscum that accumulates underneath the testicles of some sort of species that dwells in pond-scum.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 43 (M)
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Posted by retribution: I have a few questions.
1) How do you sleep at night 2) What is it like, not having a soul? 3) Is your mom ashamed of you? 4) Are you ashamed of yourself? 5) Why exactly did you feel it neccessary to cheat people out of money? 6) Why did you come here, and post a thinly veiled brag thread? Does it make you feel cool? 7) What's it like, being a 25 year old virgin? You say it's your girlfriends, yet you got busted. Why lie about having a gf? It's the interwebz dude, no-one gives a flying f$!@. 8) Do you think I'm cool?
Seriously, I nominate OP for a darwin award. You, sir, are pond scum. No wait, you're lower than pondscum. You're the pondscum that accumulates underneath the testicles of some sort of species that dwells in pond-scum.
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
Posted by retribution: I have a few questions.
1) How do you sleep at night 2) What is it like, not having a soul? 3) Is your mom ashamed of you? 4) Are you ashamed of yourself? 5) Why exactly did you feel it neccessary to cheat people out of money? 6) Why did you come here, and post a thinly veiled brag thread? Does it make you feel cool? 7) What's it like, being a 25 year old virgin? You say it's your girlfriends, yet you got busted. Why lie about having a gf? It's the interwebz dude, no-one gives a flying f$!@. 8) Do you think I'm cool?
Seriously, I nominate OP for a darwin award. You, sir, are pond scum. No wait, you're lower than pondscum. You're the pondscum that accumulates underneath the testicles of some sort of species that dwells in pond-scum.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
I am only wondering why you can't or don't do it alone, buy a bot, program it, let her rip. I'm not that bothered that people use bots, its going to happen, it only bothers me that sites allow it claiming the do their best to stop it.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by B1gfoot: I am only wondering why you can't or don't do it alone, buy a bot, program it, let her rip. I'm not that bothered that people use bots, its going to happen, it only bothers me that sites allow it claiming the do their best to stop it.
People who bot, do so because they are greedy scumbags, who likely couldn't play winning poker on their own.
For every botter, there's 1 less fish in the pool, and 1 more shark. How would you feel, sitting at a table where everyone plays perfect poker?
Sure, bots are exploitable to a degree, but the whole point of poker is to pit your skills against the skills of others. Not against some robot.
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
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Posts: 2087
Posted by retribution:
Posted by B1gfoot: I am only wondering why you can't or don't do it alone, buy a bot, program it, let her rip. I'm not that bothered that people use bots, its going to happen, it only bothers me that sites allow it claiming the do their best to stop it.
People who bot, do so because they are greedy scumbags, who likely couldn't play winning poker on their own.
For every botter, there's 1 less fish in the pool, and 1 more shark. How would you feel, sitting at a table where everyone plays perfect poker?
Sure, bots are exploitable to a degree, but the whole point of poker is to pit your skills against the skills of others. Not against some robot.
You see, I have opinion about those people and its not bad as yours. For lot people poker is way to earn money-not sport. For me its both, but I enjoy playing and I would play even if I a break even player. I would play freerolls at least. But, some people dont look at poker that way. They look at it as way to earn money. So, they invest theirs programming knowledge and make bot or they inves money and buy one + they have risk of being caught and losing all invested money cause they will never be allowed to play anywhere. So, they invested money, they risked and they will maybe earn some money. If they could see opponents cards with it or know which cards will hit board I would have much worse opinion. This way...its bad but not that bad. Also, you may feel same way about tracking software's right? Thats not real poker too. You cant see at WSOP people using stats about players collected long time ago. You cant see them having software that calculate odds for them right. Thats OK only because its allowed. And there is nothing sporty in that right?
Joined: May '09
Location: India
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Posted by jovicakralj: Also, you may feel same way about tracking software's right? Thats not real poker too. You cant see at WSOP people using stats about players collected long time ago. You cant see them having software that calculate odds for them right. Thats OK only because its allowed. And there is nothing sporty in that right?
+ 1 thats what i had to say when i created that cheating thread. everyone hav their own criteria for whats right/ wrong. anything can be justified depending on the situation/context. but just because u dont do something, doesnt giv u license to judge other people.
Posted by elfmafia: online poker is always going to be exploitable just for the fact that the cards cannot be truly random
Oops, sorry guys but something unexspected needed my time last 2 days, I will do my best to answer the questions today.
------------ @B1gfoot
You cant do it alone because you will be needing several aspects all running smoothly. You can however run a crap bot alone, like shanky's bot.
you got
1: programming of basic logic. 2:Testing, you will be needing at least 1 or several workstations running trials to take out errors. 3: Opponent modelling based on statistics. 4: A simulation engine to run simulations wich take every opponent model(based on the opp curruntly in hand) into account 5: Data mining of statistics(getting hands from all rooms at once for stats purposes). 6 : Stealth , the practice of, not getting caught by disguising the bot program like another program, or making sure it is non detectable. A good bot is useless without good stealth, good stealth is useless without a good bot.
7: Trend prediction, this is advanced and only for getting a small extra edge, using neural networks (like the ones they use in forex) to predict the avg %vpip in the next hour for example.
8: Implementing a self optimization module, let the bot tune its own parameters based on performanceby performance measuring and randomly changing of parameters, much like real evolution.
As to your last Q, most sites do not allow it and do their best to stop it. Thats why its a hell of job really.
By far most people wich are capable of working on such a bot can make a much better living working for a big company. Most botters use out of the box packages wich will only get rake even at best. Others get their accounts frozen , by making errors in stealth.
For example, a specific korean bot group got their accounts frozen and closed, after they found out their where several players running with the EXACT same stats, they forgot to tune the bot to make little differences in style in every copy running. BOOM, by by lots of K's.
By the way, allot of people out there play exactly like bots, by using pokertracker/multi tabling/pokerstove and such.
The hardest botting area is deep stack no limit. This if very difficult to exploit for botters, because real players tend to trick you by putting your whole stack in the pot, only to find out the human had a better Full House for example, or quads .
k...I'll bite. Did you take over from the bot at the final tables or did u let the bot finish? If you were successful using the bot what is the real reason you stopped? Are you a whistle blower? There is something not quite right with this thread....when you start talking I'll figure it out.
The real reason I stopped is, our group got hijacked, 2 of our members hijacked the whole group by stealing the source code and excluding every other member from access.
In other words, I got fucked over.
That was a year ago, now I'm only playing manually, and thought it would be good for the human player community to know a little bit more about botting. I think its not such a threat to human players, just because their aren't allot of good bots out there.
I forgot an important element: Screen scraping; Creating a "map" wich the program uses to convert graphics to actual data
