Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 1242
Keep in mind the rules you gave yourself at the beginning of this blog. Stick to a proper bankroll management and work your way up through the levels. You busted your roll 2 times now by ingnoring the rules...
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
have to admit it- probably the hardest thing is poker is to take a few bad beats in a row and still manage to stick to your rules as if nothing happened. i wonder with all of that bad responses zoom/rush/speed poker is getting- are there any mobster out there who are showing a long term profit on these tables?
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 4675
G'day pochui
How are you doing amigo? I read on a couple different forums that 98% of zoom table players are losing money. Massive -ev, did you ever notice when playing the zoom, rush, or speed tables that after 90 hands you have usually paid the blinds 11-13 times. I did not belive it when I read that on another forum so I tested the theory, I was totally shocked to see it was f'in true in 90 hands of playing on the zoom table I paid the Big blind 12 times and the small blind 11 times. Think about that for a sec, on a normal 9 player table you pay the blinds 1 time for every rotation, but on the speed tables you are playing the blinds more often, which means if you are card dead it is costing you more money to even wait to get a playable hand. If you do not win that playable hand then your -Ev gets even worse. The example on the other forum had mathematical examples and such which show a significant cash leak over time, it also proved how the poker site was making a lot more rake on the zoom tables then on the regular ring tables because so many more hands were being played and the average pots on a zoom table are being contested by players with more premium starting hands so the pots are generally much larger, so that generates more rake for the poker site. What a great scam they got going on the zoom tables. I have done my own experiment 3 times and each time it has been the same, in 90 hands I paid more then 9 of each blind, once I paid the Big blind 14 times in 90 hands. It is no wonder that they can show that 98% of players who are zooming are losing money overall. We must stay away from them tables to make money. best wishes mates be cool
Ronin
Edited by RoninHarper (04 December 2013 @ 11:24 GMT)
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Finland
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 224
I dont understand your theory, you mean that some guy is only paying 6 blinds in 90 hands? While some other is paying (in this case you) 12 blinds? Because in 90 hands, the real AVERAGE on a full 9 max zoom/regular (dosn't matter which one) is 10 Big Blinds..
and 2% only are winning players? I really doubt that, if this would be the case the 2% will win millions and millions.. Which is not the case
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 4675
G'day mate
Nope you did miss the point which I was trying to make. I was talking about the thread I was reading on a couple of other poker forums. In those threads they were talking about the fact that zoom tables are massive -Ev. In one thread it was started that 98% of speed table players were actually losing money because of the higher rake amounts due to people playing for larger pots. Also they pointed out that, on the speed tables in general players pay the blinds more then the standard 1 time per rotation. I did not believe that to be true, but I did my own personal test and it was true. I played the zoom tables 3 times and all three times I paid the blinds at least 11 times each in just 90 hands. I think there is a thread right now about it on 2+2 if memory serves. It has been a couple weeks since I was on the site. I am now curious so I will log on later to check to see if they are still discussing it. be cool
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Finland
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 224
Well find the thread and maybe someone there could explain to me how that is possible And im almost positive that its impossible and making only 3 times the "test" means nothing even it would be only 10 times means nothing.. If you would play a lot more hands im sure that 10 Big blinds will be the average
Because when you think that there is 90 hands and in 1 table 9max there is 9 players so 90(hands)/9(players) meaning that everyone will be on a average of 10 in every position which means that 10 Big blinds
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 1242
Posted by pochui: have to admit it- probably the hardest thing is poker is to take a few bad beats in a row and still manage to stick to your rules as if nothing happened. i wonder with all of that bad responses zoom/rush/speed poker is getting- are there any mobster out there who are showing a long term profit on these tables?
Well how do you define long term profit ? I am playing the Zoom tables at PS for some month now, but have to say that I am not a high volume player (only after work in the evening). I play the six handed version, NL10 and NL 25. My results are very different in these 2 limits. Don´t have the exact numbers here at the moment (writing from work), so have to look them up at home, but its somewhat near the following: NL 10: played around 8.000 hands for a loss of around $60 to $70 I think NL 25: played around 5.000 hands for a profit of around $200 I guess. Again, have to look up the exact numbers in HM2 at home.
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Finland
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 224
Posted by MIGO14:
Posted by pochui: have to admit it- probably the hardest thing is poker is to take a few bad beats in a row and still manage to stick to your rules as if nothing happened. i wonder with all of that bad responses zoom/rush/speed poker is getting- are there any mobster out there who are showing a long term profit on these tables?
Well how do you define long term profit ? I am playing the Zoom tables at PS for some month now, but have to say that I am not a high volume player (only after work in the evening). I play the six handed version, NL10 and NL 25. My results are very different in these 2 limits. Don't have the exact numbers here at the moment (writing from work), so have to look them up at home, but its somewhat near the following: NL 10: played around 8.000 hands for a loss of around $60 to $70 I think NL 25: played around 5.000 hands for a profit of around $200 I guess. Again, have to look up the exact numbers in HM2 at home.
Wow dude ur one of the 2% best zoom player according to ronin! ur making profit!
Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2219
They cannot be that much -EV as when I play on them there are always people with 3x their BI, and ones on 2 or more ect. I guess it's a game type where some people are better than others.
Joined: Oct '11
Location: Sweden
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1410
Well, I play the zoom tables every ones in a wile and they're pretty much +/- 0 for me. Two days ago I lost one buy-in and yesterday I won 1,5 buy-in. So well, maybe I make a marginal profit but it sure isn't anything worth mentioning.
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Finland
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 224
Posted by erru9107: Well, I play the zoom tables every ones in a wile and they're pretty much +/- 0 for me. Two days ago I lost one buy-in and yesterday I won 1,5 buy-in. So well, maybe I make a marginal profit but it sure isn't anything worth mentioning.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 1242
Posted by hemuli:
Posted by MIGO14:
Posted by pochui: have to admit it- probably the hardest thing is poker is to take a few bad beats in a row and still manage to stick to your rules as if nothing happened. i wonder with all of that bad responses zoom/rush/speed poker is getting- are there any mobster out there who are showing a long term profit on these tables?
Well how do you define long term profit ? I am playing the Zoom tables at PS for some month now, but have to say that I am not a high volume player (only after work in the evening). I play the six handed version, NL10 and NL 25. My results are very different in these 2 limits. Don't have the exact numbers here at the moment (writing from work), so have to look them up at home, but its somewhat near the following: NL 10: played around 8.000 hands for a loss of around $60 to $70 I think NL 25: played around 5.000 hands for a profit of around $200 I guess. Again, have to look up the exact numbers in HM2 at home.
Wow dude ur one of the 2% best zoom player according to ronin! ur making profit!
Lol, for sure I am far away from beeing in this region of the best players, but I am fine with my results at the moment. Here are the correct numbers: NL10: 8.855 hands / loss: $76,44 / -8,63 bb/100 NL25: 5.842 hands / winnings: $209,87 / 14,37 bb/100
Still trying to find out why I am doing this much better at NL25 than at NL10. I am nearly exactly playing the same style in both...
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 831
Posted by Phisix: Yes but a few suckouts or fish calls and it can hurt you like it has done to me the last few days. Then again I don't have another $50 to deposit after so you should be fine.
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Finland
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 224
Posted by MIGO14:
Posted by hemuli:
Posted by MIGO14:
Posted by pochui: have to admit it- probably the hardest thing is poker is to take a few bad beats in a row and still manage to stick to your rules as if nothing happened. i wonder with all of that bad responses zoom/rush/speed poker is getting- are there any mobster out there who are showing a long term profit on these tables?
Well how do you define long term profit ? I am playing the Zoom tables at PS for some month now, but have to say that I am not a high volume player (only after work in the evening). I play the six handed version, NL10 and NL 25. My results are very different in these 2 limits. Don't have the exact numbers here at the moment (writing from work), so have to look them up at home, but its somewhat near the following: NL 10: played around 8.000 hands for a loss of around $60 to $70 I think NL 25: played around 5.000 hands for a profit of around $200 I guess. Again, have to look up the exact numbers in HM2 at home.
Wow dude ur one of the 2% best zoom player according to ronin! ur making profit!
Lol, for sure I am far away from beeing in this region of the best players, but I am fine with my results at the moment. Here are the correct numbers: NL10: 8.855 hands / loss: $76,44 / -8,63 bb/100 NL25: 5.842 hands / winnings: $209,87 / 14,37 bb/100
Still trying to find out why I am doing this much better at NL25 than at NL10. I am nearly exactly playing the same style in both...
Well you dont have a big sample still imo for saying that you are "better" in NL 25 then NL 10.. Maybe if you still play little bit NL10 u will start to kick some ass there! how many tables you play at the same time?
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 1242
Playing 2 tables, more is not good for me to get all the action and I am not playing my A game with 3 or 4 tables. Too much action for me with more than two tables, lol
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Finland
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 224
Ok I was just thinking that how long u play 14k hands? its around 300-400 hands/hour per table in zoom what Ive heard? Ive never actually played a lot of zoom.. Only when I want to win quickly my money back
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 4675
G'day mates
Well I just got moved into my new place. Just now got the wireless internet to work with my laptop. Tomorrow I will get the desktop up and running too I find myself uncomfortable in the new apartment thus far. Think it is just because there is so many new noises and so much traffic driving by nonstop. Very busy main drag right beside the bridge off ramp. Ok I I went onto 2+2 and another poker site and it is interesting that people seem split as to the zoom tables. almost everyone agrees that they are -EV, the split seems to be about the extent of the problem. There are players who quote the 98% losing player number like a mantra while other player say it is more like a 65/35 split. I know personally when it comes to zoom I am a losing player over all. What does that mean? Well for me it is simple if I want to win, then I need to avoid the zoom tables. best wishes to you all be cool
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1457
Well in playing speedpoker (zoom, , ...) it s a different game
I play at the lowest limits (0.02/0.05 6-table) at Dafapoker and can play profitable.
- I buy in with minimum (1$) - when I have about 50% profit, I leave the table and re-enter with 1$ - in late position I raise 3.5 BB in an unopened pot - if you get reraised --> always wathch out for monsterhands - take notes of players, there are a lot of regulars (player pool at DAFA is about 80-150 players) so info gets usefull after a while
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 4675
G'day mates
Well I just had a losing session. Lost 3 buy ins. Lost the last one when I missed the flop and tried to make a small move then got nothing on the turn or river. I tried to buy my way out of the trouble by bluffing but I got called by a guy with pocket 3's. There was 5 over cards on the board but he called and I had Ace King spades so I had Ace high. He wins and I lost. I would never have called in his position but he did. New bankroll is now $20
Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2219
Did you ever give that Poker Track trial a go Ronin? It could help give you a little edge plus keep an eye on your stats and how much you are winning or losing.
Because in 90 hands, the real AVERAGE on a full 9 max zoom/regular (dosn't matter which one) is 10 Big Blinds.. 
